fight with the police :/

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counterfeitself
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fight with the police :/

Postby counterfeitself » Sun Dec 12, 2010 9:47 pm

hello everybody

I picked up a Police3 plain edged.

I've never used a knife before, and just bought the Police Model based on aesthetics. $160 shipped (CAD w/ sales tax) was pretty steep, but I trusted the universal praise of Spyderco I saw everywhere.

When I received it, the first thought on my mind was: this thing definitely doesn't look like it's worth $160. ~$80 sounds more reasonable.

as I started to play with it, I noticed...
- it was dull fresh out of the box.
- it had blade play
- the blade isn't centered when closed.
- motion isn't smooth
- the blade is every so slightly bent near the tip
- the swedge at the top isn't equal on both sides
- and the spyderhole is unfinished and sharp, which cuts into my thumb.

This being my first knife, I don't know if this is within normal standards or not. Either way, I was thoroughly underwhelmed considering what I paid for it. I'll send it back for an exchange - maybe it's just a bad specimen that didn't get caught by QC?


anyways...

my question is: how does the Police Model perform in knife fights?

I like the length, but I predict that it would snap in half quick and easy. It's not too hard for me to bend the blade with my fingers since it is so long and thin. I wonder if this knife was really even made with fighting in mind even though it's called "Police".

I don't mean to pose as a "tough-guy" or anything, I just want to learn more about what this knife is capable of.

I would really appreciate it if you could tell me about the Police Model's reputation. What people have used it for, stories about it and its limits.

I'm not even sure what my next knife is going to be now that this one doesn't seem to fit the bill. recommendations would be nice!

take care


Image

Image

uses so far:
extracting letter mail from envelopes
cutting orange (it did a good job)
stirring coffee
deconstructing cardboard box

Jordan
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Postby Jordan » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:03 pm

You stirred your coffee with a pocketknife?
Don't hit at all if it is honorably possible to avoid hitting; but never hit soft.
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"I twisted the knife until I heard his heart-strings sing."

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rycen
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Postby rycen » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:07 pm

Sounds like you got a used knife. Send it back for an exchange.
We would rather be the knife in your pocket, because is "works" better, than the knife in your showcase, because it "looks" better.

sal

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Dr. Snubnose
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Postby Dr. Snubnose » Sun Dec 12, 2010 10:11 pm

Makes a better SD knife than a coffee stir device, won't bend or break in half during a knife fight....but IMHO there are lots of other Spyderco knives that would fair very well in a knife fighting context.... I think you got a used knife there friend...Doc :D
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Nonprophet
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Postby Nonprophet » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:03 pm

Agree with Doc. If you break that knife in a fight...first you're doing it wrong ;) Second, you're doing it wrong! Contrary to popular belief a physical confrontation with a blade involved isn't a "hard use" for a knife. Gutting and skinning a deer is, but fighting with a knife, normally, is over quickly and if you're putting pressure side to side on the blade instead of towards the edge or the spine,...YOU'RE DOING IT WRONG.... (this admonishment is mostly tongue in cheek :eek :)
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Postby jzmtl » Sun Dec 12, 2010 11:55 pm

Sounds like you jumped in without really thinking over what you want in your knife. Spyderco makes a lot of models, and a police 3 may not be the knife best suited for you. It's one of the more expensive spydercos, mostly due to material and construction (each piece of the handle need to be manually shaped instead of just injection molding ala endura, and the tapered full flat grind blade while cuts better than a thick blade, will break easier if you pry with it. While it's called police it's designed as a utility knife with lots of edge, rather than fighting knife.

Tell us what you want in a knife and what you'll use it for, and we may give you a better recommendation.

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Postby wongKI » Mon Dec 13, 2010 12:25 am

160 dollars is about double what you should pay for it, and less for one in that condition. May we know where you got it from? You can probably get it from Warriors and Wonders in Canada, or if you want, other dealers in US such as Knifecenter or CutleryShoppe.

The flaws you describe are very much out of spec for Spyderco-warranty service should fix it up fine.

counterfeitself
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Postby counterfeitself » Mon Dec 13, 2010 1:43 am

jzmtl wrote:Sounds like you jumped in without really thinking over what you want in your knife. Spyderco makes a lot of models, and a police 3 may not be the knife best suited for you. It's one of the more expensive spydercos, mostly due to material and construction (each piece of the handle need to be manually shaped instead of just injection molding ala endura, and the tapered full flat grind blade while cuts better than a thick blade, will break easier if you pry with it. While it's called police it's designed as a utility knife with lots of edge, rather than fighting knife.

Tell us what you want in a knife and what you'll use it for, and we may give you a better recommendation.

that's exactly my situation. I haven't done the homework.

main issue with the Police3 is that I don't feel confident with a blade that's so thin that it can flex. It feels like I could snap this with my bare hands. It's like the knife should be used to filet rather than for EDC. I get the idea that if I ever had to cut through something too thick, a turn of the wrist would make half the blade snap off and get lodged in.

what exactly are police officers using this knife for? slicing up documents?

I'd like a folding knife that I could carve into a tree without worrying about it snapping. I think that sums it up. I, not knowing anything about knives, had wrongly assumed that the police would do that.

needs:
pocketable
durable (could take abuse)
solid build/heft to it (full steel liners?)

which knife can do this?


does the blade on the military model flex around too? or is this unique to the police?

counterfeitself
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Postby counterfeitself » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:09 am

wongKI wrote:160 dollars is about double what you should pay for it, and less for one in that condition. May we know where you got it from? You can probably get it from Warriors and Wonders in Canada, or if you want, other dealers in US such as Knifecenter or CutleryShoppe.

The flaws you describe are very much out of spec for Spyderco-warranty service should fix it up fine.
I got it off eBay. sold as new.

it's the shipping (~$20) + the provincial sales tax of 13% that makes the price seem high.

but it is about the same as from the sellers you mentioned. definitely cheaper than warriors and wonders (~$187)


I'm glad to hear that my knife does not represent the norm :D

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Postby dsmegst » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:40 am

Jordan wrote:You stirred your coffee with a pocketknife?
I've been known to do that when I couldn't find something else. :D
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bada61265
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Postby bada61265 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:57 am

sounds like you were expecting to be attacked by a tree
my knives:
kershaw Leek Buck 119 Cold Steel Recon tanto
Cold Steel Ti Lite VI ,
Spyderco: Tenacious ,Persistence, Endura 4 blue Stretch zdp blue, Manix 2 ,Native s30v . Sage2 titanium, Gayle Bradly cpm m4, Muleteam mt 10, woodcraft mule s30v. Orange Delica 4
Bark River PSK 154cm, Gunny, Bravo 2, Canadian Special

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cosmo7809
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Postby cosmo7809 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:09 am

counterfeitself wrote:I got it off eBay. sold as new.
That explains these:
"- it was dull fresh out of the box.
- it had blade play
- the blade isn't centered when closed.
- motion isn't smooth
- the blade is every so slightly bent near the tip"

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Postby 224477 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:24 am

The concept of the police folder, as I see it, is that the knife is not primary serving as a weapon, however it could be possibly used as one for primary weapon (handgun) retention - a backup weapon, if the need is there, otherwise, there are a lot of general choice on mind where a 4" folder makes sense.

Second, the police folder is sleek and quite light considering its size, that offers the ability for fast moving light stabs, fast slashes, on my bill it would make a good dueling style knife. Think stiletto fighting and you are there. Definitely not a heavy chopper.

There are several knife styles, which have their own dedicated types of blades.
"Having a dull knife is like having a stupid friend."

stonyman
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Postby stonyman » Mon Dec 13, 2010 2:33 pm

Wow! Sorry about your less than positive meeting with the P3. Understand that this model has a long track record for cutting performance. The newest model kind of captured what was going on in the field. Those fine tips were being snapped like twigs for guys who were/are notoriously tough on equipment. The wider or slightly rounded tip, helped a bit. Now in terms of fightability.......well that burden is on you Sir. The P3's would get it done in spades. For someone who likes beefy slightly overbuilt folders.........the P3's offer a lot in a very ;) thin package.

With that said, Spyderco offers a variety of folders, more so to your liking and plans on getting the job done if that should ever happen...........Take care and God Bless.

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Postby FLYBYU44 » Mon Dec 13, 2010 3:02 pm

Ebay probably isn't the best place to buy a knife from, especially if you are new to knife buying and don't know the trusted sellers (if there even are any on Ebay). I just found it online new for $135 at a trusted seller, that took me all of 30 secs to do. I suggest you return it and buy from someone else.
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Postby jzmtl » Mon Dec 13, 2010 6:05 pm

counterfeitself wrote:that's exactly my situation. I haven't done the homework.

main issue with the Police3 is that I don't feel confident with a blade that's so thin that it can flex. It feels like I could snap this with my bare hands. It's like the knife should be used to filet rather than for EDC. I get the idea that if I ever had to cut through something too thick, a turn of the wrist would make half the blade snap off and get lodged in.

what exactly are police officers using this knife for? slicing up documents?

I'd like a folding knife that I could carve into a tree without worrying about it snapping. I think that sums it up. I, not knowing anything about knives, had wrongly assumed that the police would do that.

needs:
pocketable
durable (could take abuse)
solid build/heft to it (full steel liners?)

which knife can do this?


does the blade on the military model flex around too? or is this unique to the police?
Military flex much less, since blade stock is thicker, but the very tip is more fragile. But really unless you use it to either pry or chop, you'll never break the blade cutting stuff.

I'm not into heavy duty folders so not familiar with the selection, but just a regular endura would be pretty tough with its saber grind blade and sturdy tip, you can go with either stainless or G10 (same as P3) handle if plastic is not your thing.
FLYBYU44 wrote:Ebay probably isn't the best place to buy a knife from, especially if you are new to knife buying and don't know the trusted sellers (if there even are any on Ebay). I just found it online new for $135 at a trusted seller, that took me all of 30 secs to do. I suggest you return it and buy from someone else.

Caledon2 on ebay is good, bought many times never let me down.

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monsterdog
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Postby monsterdog » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:01 pm

counterfeitself wrote:I'd like a folding knife that I could carve into a tree without worrying about it snapping. I think that sums it up. I, not knowing anything about knives, had wrongly assumed that the police would do that.
Depending on the type of carving, maybe a fixed blade (non-folding) knife is more up your alley? The Perrin Street Beat is a fantastic knife.

As said before, $160 is a little steep, and it sounds like you got either a used knife or a bad apple. I would talk to the ebayer you bought it from about sending it back for a full refund so you can spend the money on either another model or get it where its guaranteed to be new.

This knife should be $140 (US) from a reputable dealer or less.

A lot of Spyderco knives are made as fine slicers, the Police is no exception. If you want something tougher, try looking at the Manix 2 or the PPT, both are tanks (they should be around $85 and $150 US respectively online.)

The Manix 2 often has a slightly off center blade when closed, but for the price vs the quality, this shouldn't bother you.

Other models worthy of mention (though I don't own any of these, so can't give my personal opinion): Gayle Bradley and Chinook.

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Postby Joshua J. » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:02 pm

counterfeitself wrote:...When I received it, the first thought on my mind was: this thing definitely doesn't look like it's worth $160. ~$80 sounds more reasonable.

as I started to play with it, I noticed...
- it was dull fresh out of the box.
- it had blade play
- the blade isn't centered when closed.
- motion isn't smooth
- the blade is every so slightly bent near the tip
- the swedge at the top isn't equal on both sides
- and the spyderhole is unfinished and sharp, which cuts into my thumb.

This being my first knife, I don't know if this is within normal standards or not. Either way, I was thoroughly underwhelmed considering what I paid for it. I'll send it back for an exchange - maybe it's just a bad specimen that didn't get caught by QC?
You found out why the Sebenza costs $400, and not $140.
IMO most of this stuff is easily fixed by the user and or does not affect the performance if the knife.

As for fighting with a knife, Spyderco always seems to have a few purpose built knives in the lineup. The Chinook 3 is still readily available, and I can attest that it is as sturdy as almost anything else out there. The Civilian is made to be devastating and easy to use. The P'Kal would be great if you are willing to take proper training. My personal favorite, the Waved Endura 4, is inexpensive, very fast to deploy, and with the saber grind has a strong tip.

Of course, I only fight cardboard cutouts. Fighting people with a knife is, 90% of the time, a really bad idea. Especially in Canada.
Canadian law is very very very against fighting with knives, and gives big penalties to those willing to do so anyway.
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Postby Red Berens » Mon Dec 13, 2010 8:11 pm

I tried to answer some of your questions;
counterfeitself wrote:main issue with the Police3 is that I don't feel confident with a blade that's so thin that it can flex. It feels like I could snap this with my bare hands. It's like the knife should be used to filet rather than for EDC. I get the idea that if I ever had to cut through something too thick, a turn of the wrist would make half the blade snap off and get lodged in.

I carry one and the blade is alot stronger than you think. They're made to go up and down, not side to side

what exactly are police officers using this knife for? slicing up documents?

Yes. And opening our mail, and cutting rope, and opening food packages, and cutting barricade tape, etc.. We use them for just about everything but fighting.

I'd like a folding knife that I could carve into a tree without worrying about it snapping.
They make those. They're called saws and axes ;)

does the blade on the military model flex around too? or is this unique to the police? Any steel blade will flex a little. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but if it didn't flex, it would break.
All in all, the Police model is a great knife, as long as you use it for what it was intended. It's not a do-it-all tool, it's just made to cut things. If I had to stab someone in the neck to protect myself or a third party, it would work perfectly. But realistically, it'll get used to cut loose threads on my uniform way more :)

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Postby SirIsaacNewton » Mon Dec 13, 2010 9:59 pm

I think it is safe to say that in a knife fight the performance of the knife fighter is more important than the knife. So if that is your interest you should ask for a refund for the Spyderco Police and sign up for Krav Maga.

IMO from what you are describing what you need it is a 10mm not a knife. A 10mm can cut a tree down, brew and stir your coffee, and incinerate your packages by compressing the air in front of the projectile. Hah, screw slicing an orange a 10mm can turn a barrel of oranges into orange inhalant.

Good luck and if your looking for another blade to replace the Police I suggest the Spyderco meerkat or stainless honeybee.


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