Tools or Weapons

[ChapmanPreferred]

Utility first, defensive way after that for me.

[2edgesword]

First, it is a sad commentary on just how PC our society has become when we even have to have a decision that includes warnings about the legal ramifications of how we refer to a knife. I understand the necessity of it, especially since I live in the People's Republic of New York where citizens have been effective stripped of their 2nd amendment right to keep and bear any weapon, but it's an indication of just how screwed up we've become as a society.

Regarding the comment "If the people would pay for MORE police officers by that I mean 10 times more we wouldn’t need to worry about self defense nearly as much."

NOT!

I do not what this country and my community turned in to a police state. This is not to disparage LEOs but ten times more police means a ten times increase in the potential for government corruption and abuse of power. And the cost of this domestic army would be astronomical. This idea also frosters the notion that more government is the answer to our problems and usurps the individual responsibility for his personal protection.

[The Deacon]

I think when you start to consider a pocket knife as a potential defensive weapon then you begin to enter a very dangerous world and you'd better be very well prepared and trained. I think it is too tempting for an average Joe to put a knife in his pocket and feel like he has got defence covered but in reality it is just giving him a false sense of security and might tempt him into getting into a situation that he'd be better off walking (or running!) away from.

A well-trained MBCer is better able to make the decision but for me, if I was facing an aggressive dog or a thug I would first get the heck out of there ... and if I couldn't I would probably reach for a lump of wood, rather than pull out my UKPK. Of course, if you are facing imminent death then you can use whatever comes to hand but by pulling a knife you are immediately escalating the situation against a human opponent, which is why I consider all of my knives as tools ... not defensive weapons.

Yes, and no, Chris. Yes, assuming that just having a knife in your pocket means you can go places and do things you'd otherwise have the good sense to avoid is stupid. Yes, looking at a non-locking folder, even the UKPK, as a defensive weapon except under the most extreme of circumstances would be foolhardy. Yes, avoidance and retreat are the most sensible courses of action when feasible.

Problem is, they're not always feasible. As an example, dogs often respond to a person moving quickly by chasing and the chances of me outrunning an aggressive dog would be pretty low. Counting on finding something like your "lump of wood" on a city street seems even more risky than counting on a knife. One could also argue that, like the knife, it to would require training to be most effective.

Pepper spray sounds good in theory, but assumes your attacker, four legged or bipedal, does not have the weather gage.

As for escalation against a human attacker, you've already mentioned the reason why pulling a knife not be doing that, but rather attempting to level the playing field against a younger, larger, stronger, or otherwise advantaged attacker.

[jackknifeh]

First, it is a sad commentary on just how PC our society has become when we even have to have a decision that includes warnings about the legal ramifications of how we refer to a knife. I understand the necessity of it, especially since I live in the People's Republic of New York where citizens have been effective stripped of their 2nd amendment right to keep and bear any weapon, but it's an indication of just how screwed up we've become as a society.

Regarding the comment "If the people would pay for MORE police officers by that I mean 10 times more we wouldn’t need to worry about self defense nearly as much."

NOT!

I do not what this country and my community turned in to a police state. This is not to disparage LEOs but ten times more police means a ten times increase in the potential for government corruption and abuse of power. And the cost of this domestic army would be astronomical. This idea also frosters the notion that more government is the answer to our problems and usurps the individual responsibility for his personal protection.

I said 10 times more cops. I do agree with you though. I was stating an option, not a desire. But we are not allowed to provide our own self defense completly because of several things. Mainly we are faced with the same problems the LEOs have. Proving we had no other choice. That's the only problem I really have because I know I would not have any other choice if it happened to me. But then maybe I'm a liar. You nor anyone who doesn't know me doesn't really know. Really what was on my mind when writing that post is that the only problem is the human race. We have the potential for such greatness and have displayed it. We also have the potential for the other side of the coin. The only answer is to change people. Good luck. Laws and the enforcement of them just hits the surface. But that is the best we can come up with (or have so far). My hat is off to every committed Law Enforcement Officer out there. I was ranting earlier and don't want to start again. I would love to see the need for the military and police officers gone. That would mean no war or crime. But while the need is there I support them.

Jack

[2edgesword]

I said 10 times more cops. I do agree with you though. I was stating an option, not a desire. But we are not allowed to provide our own self defense completly because of several things. Mainly we are faced with the same problems the LEOs have. Proving we had no other choice. That's the only problem I really have because I know I would not have any other choice if it happened to me. But then maybe I'm a liar. You nor anyone who doesn't know me doesn't really know. Really what was on my mind when writing that post is that the only problem is the human race. We have the potential for such greatness and have displayed it. We also have the potential for the other side of the coin. The only answer is to change people. Good luck. Laws and the enforcement of them just hits the surface. But that is the best we can come up with (or have so far). My hat is off to every committed Law Enforcement Officer out there. I was ranting earlier and don't want to start again. I would love to see the need for the military and police officers gone. That would mean no war or crime. But while the need is there I support them.

Jack

Hi Jack,

Understood.

Paul (2edgesword)

[npueppke]

Police aren't there to defend us anyways, that's not their job. Their job is to enforce the law (how well they do that/how good our laws are is another discussion altogether and probably falls under the 'no politics on this forum' rule).

[Reno Sepulveda]

I remember 7th grade metal shop. The teacher told us in no uncertain terms we absolutely could not make any weapons in that class. Instead we would start out by doing assigned projects. The first two assigned projects were:

1. BBQ fork
2. Letter opener.

The stuff that sprang forth from our fevered 13 and 14 year old minds and hands were some of the scariest looking things I've ever seen.

[On Edge]

I also have carried a knife on my person pretty much every day for many years.

Grew up in Brooklyn in some pretty rough areas, and often ran through scenarios in my mind where I would need my knife to defend myself ... and it was just always kind of "back there" outside the fringe of conscious thought ...

Funny thing, the only time I was put in a position where I had to actually defend myself (as a citizen on the street) with a weapon, the weapon I had most readily at hand was an 8-inch screwdriver.

It made a damned fine weapon too - but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been worth much as a knife ...

[bowarrow2000]

Tools/pocket jewelry

[chuck_roxas45]

Funny thing, the only time I was put in a position where I had to actually defend myself (as a citizen on the street) with a weapon, the weapon I had most readily at hand was an 8-inch screwdriver.

It made a damned fine weapon too - but I'm pretty sure it wouldn't have been worth much as a knife ...

Hey dude, be careful calling that a weapon, next thing you know they be making laws to regulate screwdrivers. :D

[swissknife]

Hey dude, be careful calling that a weapon, next thing you know they be making laws to regulate screwdrivers. :D

funny you mention that; now, that my civie and my police were taken away from me some years ago, the laws have changed again; and guess what, i can now carry a single-handed knife, but an axe, a baseball-bat AND a screwdriver were now considered "dangerous items"; so i cant bring the screwdriver from work to the football, but it's alright if i bring my 4-inch police.. :confused:

[peacefuljeffrey]

Mine are all tools too. I carry most of mine in pocket so it would take too long to ever draw them out and use them defensively.

Should you really say "never"?
You could find yourself being stalked in a parking lot by a suspicious-looking character, and while continuing to walk to your vehicle, get your hand on the knife and be ready.

I'm just sayin' ...

[chuck_roxas45]

funny you mention that; now, that my civie and my police were taken away from me some years ago, the laws have changed again; and guess what, i can now carry a single-handed knife, but an axe, a baseball-bat AND a screwdriver were now considered "dangerous items"; so i cant bring the screwdriver from work to the football, but it's alright if i bring my 4-inch police.. :confused:

A lot of knife laws are confusing.

[swissknife]

A lot of knife laws are confusing.

i dont know if i can or should say that here, but usually they *EDITED* SUCK, to be honest..

but hey, i wont complain, from something like '98 until '08, laws were really yucky; and spyderco's were banned per se anyway; single-handed opening, with "automatism"'s or not, they were banned! which i think goes against our "closed-shop" rule..

the new SAK's (military at first..) are single-handed, so i guess they've had to change the laws to accomodate that.. :o

[Brad S.]

The court system would prefer that I call them tools. They are a tool for cutting things...


Doesnt matter if Im cutting paper... or flesh.

[Michael Janich]

Having produced articles, books, DVDs, and television programs on the defensive use of knives, it would be disingenuous of me to claim that I only consider them to be tools. I carry them as tools, but acknowledge their potential as defensive weapons. I also train diligently to have the skill to use them in an ethical, morally responsible manner that is consistent with the legal defnitions of self-defense.

More importantly, I practice awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, and boundary setting to keep myself and my family safe without having to be involved in any type of physical altercation. These "outer layers" of a sound personal defense system are the most important and should be used more often. However, it's not a matter of "either/or." It's both. If a situation cannot be resolved through non-physical means and cannot be avoided, I am determined to have the tools and the skills to address it responsibly and effectively on a physical level.

I purposely developed Martial Blade Concepts to extract proven techniques from the Filipino martial arts and combine them with an exceptional understanding of human anatomy to yield a system that achieves reliable, predictable stopping power with knives that are legally permissible.

Stay safe,

Mike

[chipdouglas]

Having produced articles, books, DVDs, and television programs on the defensive use of knives, it would be disingenuous of me to claim that I only consider them to be tools. I carry them as tools, but acknowledge their potential as defensive weapons. I also train diligently to have the skill to use them in an ethical, morally responsible manner that is consistent with the legal defnitions of self-defense.

More importantly, I practice awareness, avoidance, de-escalation, and boundary setting to keep myself and my family safe without having to be involved in any type of physical altercation. These "outer layers" of a sound personal defense system are the most important and should be used more often. However, it's not a matter of "either/or." It's both. If a situation cannot be resolved through non-physical means and cannot be avoided, I am determined to have the tools and the skills to address it responsibly and effectively on a physical level.

I purposely developed Martial Blade Concepts to extract proven techniques from the Filipino martial arts and combine them with an exceptional understanding of human anatomy to yield a system that achieves reliable, predictable stopping power with knives that are legally permissible.

Stay safe,

Mike

Well said.

[buckthorn]

Tools only for me too. There's no option for that in the poll. How about redoing the poll with this option included? Thanks.