H-1 Military ?

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Joe Internet
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Postby Joe Internet » Tue Oct 05, 2010 4:15 pm

Hey, Jester... not trying to shoot your theory down. Just letting you know that we're that much closer to it being a possibility.

Just don't drool all over them if it happens. :)

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tanrichguy
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Postby tanrichguy » Tue Oct 05, 2010 9:22 pm

If you drool all over H1 it's ok (being rust proof and all).
So let's see: hollow ground H1 blade, H1 liners with liner lock, H1 hardware and fasteners, H1 pocket clip, whatever color G-10 you like.

Sounds like a very expensive, limited run to me. A very interesting concept, to be sure.
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Postby Bill1170 » Wed Oct 06, 2010 11:59 am

tanrichguy wrote:If you drool all over H1 it's ok (being rust proof and all).
So let's see: hollow ground H1 blade, H1 liners with liner lock, H1 hardware and fasteners, H1 pocket clip, whatever color G-10 you like.

Sounds like a very expensive, limited run to me. A very interesting concept, to be sure.
Only the blade has to be H1. There are other stainless steels that will suffice for the nonsharp parts. Sal has mentioned this in the past. Titanium works great for the clip in the Salt folders, but makes a poor blade material.

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Postby florijn » Wed Oct 06, 2010 2:57 pm

Thanks for your input guys!
I thought my idea was pretty much good, separate from production technique.

Military with H-1 blade and yellow G10 or a Military Ti frame lock with yellow G10 and the H-1 blade (what ever grind).

I don't see difficulties, I see a challenge. :D ;)
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Postby Jester » Wed Oct 06, 2010 5:50 pm

This is just a tangent. Do the salts not have liners? Is that why they use barrel bolt clips?

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Postby tanrichguy » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:03 pm

Bill1170 wrote:Only the blade has to be H1. There are other stainless steels that will suffice for the nonsharp parts. Sal has mentioned this in the past. Titanium works great for the clip in the Salt folders, but makes a poor blade material.
Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the primary purpose of H1 steel? If it is "rust-proofedness", then what good does it do to have a blade be rust proof if the rest of the components will rust?
If there is some other "super steel like" quality to H1 I'm not aware of please enlighten me.
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Postby phaust » Wed Oct 06, 2010 6:13 pm

Jester wrote:This is just a tangent. Do the salts not have liners? Is that why they use barrel bolt clips?
Correct, Salts don't have liners, and that's why they use those clips.

tanrichguy wrote:Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the primary purpose of H1 steel? If it is "rust-proofedness", then what good does it do to have a blade be rust proof if the rest of the components will rust?
If there is some other "super steel like" quality to H1 I'm not aware of please enlighten me.
The reason H1 is special is because it makes a good blade steel and doesn't rust, not because it's the only steel that doesn't rust, as Bill said. Consider that the Salt folders have steel in them that isn't H1 and that hasn't rusted in the tests people have done, such as the pins holding the handle together and more recently the screw at the pivot. What he is suggesting is using such steel as the liners and other parts.

rah408
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Military w/ H1 steel is a no-brainer!

Postby rah408 » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:00 am

I'm new here but have been buying Spydercos since I discovered them at Eddie Bauer back in 1990.
I have quite a knife collection, but the Military is one of my all-time favorites.
I spoke with John at Spyderco customer service a few days back and asked when (not 'if') the Military would be offered in H1.
He said there are no plans yet, but to post and ask about it.
I consider this a total 'no-brainer' due to the Military Model's very mission statement.
What could be better than Spyderco's most rugged, no-nonsense folder offered in true 'invincible' fashion with this great rust-proof steel?

I just got a Rock Salt for the (I think) amazing price of only 149 new.
I love it, but it's huge!
How do those of you on this forum carry such a beast?
thanks for your time and consideration,
Rad

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Postby The General » Thu Oct 07, 2010 11:42 am

Plain edge holding with H1 is nothing special. Serrated is fantastic.

Spyderco just disco'd the serrated Military. Probably as the fully serrated Mil is not as popular. I have one and its a great knife.

Its a dead horse guys. It would be very expensive (H1 milly) and an incredibly niche market item. It would flop badly and if we are honest, we all know this.

Its nice that these idea's are thought out and well discussed but as hard core Spyderco fans, we look at the line up with a VERY different perspective to the customers that actually buy the knives in quantities that make a knife cover its development costs and then hopefully make a profit for Sal and the gang.

Even as a sprint run I cannot see this working. Its far too much added work, it would be a totally new knife in that respect.

Sal would probably have to charge $500 a knife to break even.
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Postby florijn » Thu Oct 07, 2010 1:23 pm

rah408 wrote:I'm new here but have been buying Spydercos since I discovered them at Eddie Bauer back in 1990.
I have quite a knife collection, but the Military is one of my all-time favorites.
I spoke with John at Spyderco customer service a few days back and asked when (not 'if') the Military would be offered in H1.
He said there are no plans yet, but to post and ask about it.
I consider this a total 'no-brainer' due to the Military Model's very mission statement.
What could be better than Spyderco's most rugged, no-nonsense folder offered in true 'invincible' fashion with this great rust-proof steel?

I just got a Rock Salt for the (I think) amazing price of only 149 new.
I love it, but it's huge!
How do those of you on this forum carry such a beast?
thanks for your time and consideration,
Rad
Yes Sir,
I totally agree with you.
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Postby florijn » Sat Nov 13, 2010 4:12 am

H-1 Millie ....... Any chance Spyderco ?
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Postby florijn » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:50 am

Thought I bring it up once more .......
I'm sure there are more people out there that would like to see this knife.
Lets revive this "dead horse".
May be next Christmas?
H1 Millie, ho ho ho.
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Postby jabba359 » Mon Dec 27, 2010 3:31 am

tanrichguy wrote:Please excuse my ignorance, but what is the primary purpose of H1 steel? If it is "rust-proofedness", then what good does it do to have a blade be rust proof if the rest of the components will rust?
If there is some other "super steel like" quality to H1 I'm not aware of please enlighten me.
There are lots of other steels that don't rust (titanium being one of them), but not many (if any at all) steels are rust-proof and make good blades. You are correct in saying it's not very useful if the blade can't rust and then the other materials can. Spyderco, however, has this covered by using other non-rusting materials in the rest of the knife. Obviously the FRN handles can't rust, the clip is Ti, and all the other metal components are made from unspecified non-rusting materials as well, so you get a whole rust-proof package. H1 allows you to have a blade steel that takes and holds a good edge -with the added bonus of improving edge holding abilities the more you use and sharpen it- while also being insanely corrosion resistant and rust-free.

edit: yes, I realize this thread is a few months old, but wanted to address the "other component rusting" concern in case anyone new was reading this thread since it was brought back to the top.
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Postby Pinetreebbs » Mon Dec 27, 2010 9:23 am

Chris_H wrote:
Another challenge would be "rust proofing" the inlaid liners that now exist on both sides of the Military model.
Titanium liners would work, especially covered in grippy G-10. You could put an H-1 blade in a titanium military but prefer other materials for scales.
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Postby Chris_H » Mon Dec 27, 2010 1:40 pm

Pinetreebbs wrote:Titanium liners would work, especially covered in grippy G-10. You could put an H-1 blade in a titanium military but prefer other materials for scales.
Yes, good point on using Ti.
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Postby araneae » Mon Dec 27, 2010 2:15 pm

HotSoup wrote:It has nothing to do with cost.

the hollow grinding allows for better work hardening.

It appears FFG H-1 didn't meet Spydercos specifications or was just completely unusable.
Actually, I believe the reason is the way FFG blades are factory ground and the work hardening that occurs when grinding H1. It can be done but I believe it was cost ineffective for the Salt series. There are plenty of FFG Salts out there that have been aftermarket modified. Its apparently cost prohibitive to do in a production setting at this time.

There is some one out there that would like to see H1 versions of all the Spyderco folders. The question is, will enough people want one at the price required. Would there be a sustainable market for a $225-250 (just my estimate) hollow ground Ti Millie with H1? I doubt it.
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Postby Popsickle » Mon Jul 04, 2011 1:46 am

i just read through this hole thread and ask..... why not?
ive been carrying my orange millie at the bar to cut fruits/whatever else needs to be sliced up....and it rusts fairly easily after a shift or two. i would love an H1 military for bar use!

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Postby VashHash » Mon Jul 04, 2011 8:26 am

S90V is pretty rust resistant and a millie in that steel right now would probably equal to the cost of an h1 millie. How about an S110V millie. Its more corrosion resistant than S90V and holds an edge better. Ti framelock and g10 in lays or fluting to increase grip. Or a combination of both.

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Postby RedRunner » Mon Jul 04, 2011 10:23 am

Chris_H wrote:Thanks, I couldn't remember for sure if the Rock Salt was 3 or 4mm. But, the Military definitely is. That may still pose a problem for getting the H1 in the right thickness from the foundry.

Of course the Warrior is a thick H1 model too. Hmm...
I'm not 100% sure about this, but my guess is the foundry is producing large ingots and the rolling mill is producing the flats to size. Some of the strength and other attributes is developed in the hot and/or cold rolling process. Perhaps things have changed and these exotic steels are some how poured to size, but I doubt that is possible at this stage, nor efficient to do. There could be one more person involved, depending on the amount of equipment Spyderco has, and that's the Service Center, who could cut the flat rolled steel to sizes more useable for Spyderco. That's also likely to occur. And I suppose there maybe a broker involved, as well - if quantities are small and they need to source excess from some other production run. That could have been the downfall to the 3mm supply, if the larger use "dried up". Not sure who would use this steel, but a 100% rust proof steel is probably useful in a number of applications - I'm assuming marine use is one of them.

It would be interesting to here what the constraint was caused by. Generally it's because there is not enough demand for a size. Rolling mills generally produce a certain amount or it is cost prohibitive.

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Postby Googz » Mon Jul 04, 2011 7:32 pm

Count me in!
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