MT07P Â– Mule Team Fixed Blade featuring Damascus/VG-10

captnvegtble · #41

I know that "traditional" damascus steel (folding and hammering out multiple layers) has a functional purpose to it imparting flexibility and strength to the steel, but what I'm not clear on is whether the Spyderco damascus (or for that matter other companies laminated damascus steels) have any functional benefit or if they are purely cosmetic. Can anybody comment on this? Functional or purely cosmetic?

MCM · #42

The Deacon wrote:Not sure. The generic sense of the term is a blade made of three layers, with the center core being harder. The blade on the CF Caly 3, for example, would definitely qualify. However, a blade with damascus, which is itself comprised of multiple layers, as its outer layers does seem to blur that definition.

"Spyderco’s Damascus Mule Team is a laminated fifteen-layer steel "

Anyone care to clear this up?

Three layers V.S . 15?
7+7+1 harder center?
Or all just all VG-10? Same hardness?
Not that it matters....... am in for 2. :)

SolidState · #43

captnvegtble wrote:I know that "traditional" damascus steel (folding and hammering out multiple layers) has a functional purpose to it imparting flexibility and strength to the steel, but what I'm not clear on is whether the Spyderco damascus (or for that matter other companies laminated damascus steels) have any functional benefit or if they are purely cosmetic. Can anybody comment on this? Functional or purely cosmetic?

Originally folding was a method of standardizing carbon and impurity content throughout the steel, but these days with powdered steel it is unnecessary. That makes it all more for fun and aesthetics I guess.

jabba359 · #44

MCM wrote:"Spyderco’s Damascus Mule Team is a laminated fifteen-layer steel "

Anyone care to clear this up?

Three layers V.S . 15?
7+7+1 harder center?
Or all just all VG-10? Same hardness?
Not that it matters....... am in for 2. :)

Not sure if this clears anything up, but Kristi said: The Damascus Mule’s steel is composed of layers of erosive and non-erosive material over a VG-10 core center. The erosive layers are hard martensite stainless steel and the non-erosive layers are anti-corrosion nonferrous metal.

So not all VG-10, just the core.

jabba359 · #45

captnvegtble wrote:I know that "traditional" damascus steel (folding and hammering out multiple layers) has a functional purpose to it imparting flexibility and strength to the steel, but what I'm not clear on is whether the Spyderco damascus (or for that matter other companies laminated damascus steels) have any functional benefit or if they are purely cosmetic. Can anybody comment on this? Functional or purely cosmetic?

SolidState wrote:Originally folding was a method of standardizing carbon and impurity content throughout the steel, but these days with powdered steel it is unnecessary. That makes it all more for fun and aesthetics I guess.

Maybe this helps answer the question:

sal wrote:There is a special Takefu Damascus that has a VG-10 core and some interesting purpose to their layers.

sal

Sal wouldn't elaborate on what the "interesting purpose" of the layers are, but said it would be explained in the enclosed literature with the Mule. This leads me to believe that the Damscus goes beyond aesthetics and actually has a practical purpose.

SolidState · #46

I'd be willing to bet that the non-ferrous material is all kinds of corrosion resistant

whkento · #47

Holy cow!!!! I MUST have at least one... can I afford two? Not sure yet.

Gonna have to put away some of that Seki festival money.

The Deacon · #48

buckthorn wrote:Received an email from SFO this afternoon that, as the Mule's blade is under 4", they can, and will, ship to New York State customers!

That's good news. Just hope they get the rest of it sorted out soon. Determining whether an address is in NYC or not, based on ZIP code is pretty easy.

PocketZen wrote:Gator at zknives has a great glossary of Japanese knife terms.

http://zknives.com/knives/articles/jpnk ... ypes.shtml

Thank you! So now the question becomes, is the Mule San-Mai or Warikomi.

MCM wrote:"Spyderco’s Damascus Mule Team is a laminated fifteen-layer steel "

Anyone care to clear this up?

Three layers V.S . 15?
7+7+1 harder center?
Or all just all VG-10? Same hardness?
Not that it matters....... am in for 2. :)

My read of it would be 15-1-15 with fifteen layer damascus outer layers on each side of a solid VG-10 core. What I'm unsure of is whether that would be San-Mai (three pieces, with the center core VG-10 and the two outer ones 15 layer damascus) or Warikomi (two pieces, with the 15 layer damascus folded over the spine of the VG-10 core).

whkento · #49

It looks like I'll have to stay up late on Friday so I can get that order in. It's interesting living across the int'l date line.

Btw, even my wife said I should get one after I showed her the picture. That's a first! :D

The Deacon · #50

whkento wrote:It looks like I'll have to stay up late on Friday so I can get that order in. It's interesting living across the int'l date line.

Btw, even my wife said I should get one after I showed her the picture. That's a first! :D

Way I'm reading things, Golden is 15 hours behind you. Even with the level of enthusiasm displayed here, I doubt they'll sell out before SFO closes at 6pm Friday so, assuming you normally get up before 9am and intend to phone it in, you could order when you get up Saturday morning. If you do it online, I'd bet you could sleep in and still be ok.

2cha · #51

jabba359 wrote:Maybe this helps answer the question:

Sal wouldn't elaborate on what the "interesting purpose" of the layers are, but said it would be explained in the enclosed literature with the Mule. This leads me to believe that the Damscus goes beyond aesthetics and actually has a practical purpose.

I read "interesting purpose" as an aesthetic term, not a technical term.

#52

We have added the Mules to the "Shippable to NY" category.

ffbeerd · #53

Woot! These mules look great! Looking forward to them.

The Deacon · #54

TazKristi wrote:We have added the Mules to the "Shippable to NY" category.

Good to hear Kristi. All of the fixed blades should really be off the "no go" list. I imagine even the NYC folks who think Vance is fighting evil would be irate if he showed off a table full of kitchen knives confiscated from Macy's, Bloomingdale's, Crate & Barrel, and The Broadway Panhandler. :eek:

Just hope you get clarification on the folders for those of us outside NYC.

mattman · #55

That's great news!!
Thanks for getting on that Kristi.
And thanks, Deacon, for helping the new guy have a voice.

I really did NOT expect my first exchange here to have to be on a negative ...I guess it turned out to be a positive, anyway.

gaj999 · #56

MCM wrote:Anyone care to clear this up?

Three layers V.S . 15?
7+7+1 harder center?
Or all just all VG-10? Same hardness?
Not that it matters....... am in for 2. :)

Looking at the picture ... I counted 14 white/black pairs going up the blade near the guard. That would imply that a "layer" consists of one of each and that there are 15 layers on each side of the VG-10.

Gordon

captnvegtble · #57

2cha wrote:I read "interesting purpose" as an aesthetic term, not a technical term.

So it sounds like nobody really knows if there is a functional purpose to the layers on damascus. I guess maybe we're going to have to buy one (or two) to find out what Sal has to say about Damascus steel :D

Brisket · #58

captnvegtble wrote:So it sounds like nobody really knows if there is a functional purpose to the layers on damascus. I guess maybe we're going to have to buy one (or two) to find out what Sal has to say about Damascus steel :D

If I understand correctly, this is saying that the function of the layers is corrosion protection since the layers block carbon particles from spreading to the exterior.

The erosive layers are hard martensite stainless steel and the non-erosive layers are anti-corrosion nonferrous metal. These layers block carbon particles in the core from spreading to the outer layers.

captnvegtble · #59

Brisket wrote:If I understand correctly, this is saying that the function of the layers is corrosion protection since the layers block carbon particles from spreading to the exterior.

VG-10 is already stainless, though. How much extra corrosion resistance does it add? I guess I'm just a little ignorant when it comes to damascus. :confused:

cckw · #60

The Deacon wrote:Way I'm reading things, Golden is 15 hours behind you. Even with the level of enthusiasm displayed here, I doubt they'll sell out before SFO closes at 6pm Friday so, assuming you normally get up before 9am and intend to phone it in, you could order when you get up Saturday morning. If you do it online, I'd bet you could sleep in and still be ok.

I agree, shouldn't be a problem. The highest pre-interest I have seen was for the S35VN, and it took about 2 weeks to sell out. But it is fun to order on day one.