New Native

[tkdiver1]

Any idea if we might be seeing the new native this year? I remember seeing the production prototype pics earlier this year but was just wondering whether or not it was supposed to be released this year. Any info. is much appreciated.

[mikerestivo]

Would someone be so kind as to post a link to the production prototype pictures referenced above? I can't recall having seen them and sure would like to. Thanks -

[v8r]

Me too, I hope they make a SS handled version also. I would love to buy a few so I could retire my Native II PE. :)

[224477]

Bring in the CHIEF, please!

[ICSK]

Here's the link to the prototype pictures of the native 4:

http://spydercollector.wordpress.com/20 ... 93-part-2/


I can't say I'm too excited for this knife, unfortunately. I'll just sum up what I'm excited about because I was typing this and it appeared way too long! Hope this'll make it easier to read.

Decrements:

• G-10 + liners = added weight + cost. I can't imagine this to be true otherwise. I'm a little upset that Spyderco decided to switch to G-10. I feel the blade of the knife isn't long enough to warrant G-10 + liners. Perhaps people were sending in their Natives with broken handles after "hard use"? I can't speak for Spyderco, but I felt that the knife was more than strong enough as is.
• Hole is still partially covered. I think this speaks for itself once you look at the pictures. This factor makes it fairly hard to deploy (unless your hands favor the smaller side).

Improvements:

• They've rounded off one of the most important area of the handle! Big kudos to Spyderco. See image below:
  
• Pocket clip has been improved drastically. They no longer use that barrel bolt clip, which was shredding the FRN on people's Natives (mine included). They've also allowed the user to switch it to 4-way positionable pocket clip (this seems to be the standard for Spyderco now. Good job!)
• Jimping is improved. Not only do they have it on the thumb choil, Spyderco also seems to have improved the jimping on the top (it looks like it's more aggressive than the jimping on the previous native)
• Full flat grinding! Definitely a plus for me! This blade shape makes it an awesome slicer
• While G-10 is heavier, I suppose it'd provide more traction for the hand. I'm still not looking forward to the weight and cost it'll add.
• No more rivets! Spyderco switched to screws! Not really a big deal for me but it probably is for some

[ChrisR]

It looks like a great knife but I think the only slight disappointment for me, from the Amsterdam photos, was the lack of swedge. I am not a fan of deep, exaggerated swedges but the subtle bevel along the top of the blade on the CF version and on the Dragonfly is pleasing on the eye and continues the original Native design theme. The steel liners do seem to be quite heavily engineered too (the UKPK doesn't seem to need liners) ... I hope that it isn't too heavy and bulky in the pocket.

[Evil D]

It really looks to me like the choil is a lot more broad. The old one had a very tight and small choil that my big finger didn't quite fit into as well as it looks like it will in the new version. I'm afraid though that the Native is slowly losing its identity and becoming a strange Sage hybrid thing. All it needs is a thumb ramp.

[v8r]

Here's the link to the prototype pictures of the native 4:

http://spydercollector.wordpress.com/20 ... 93-part-2/




Decrements:

• G-10 + liners = added weight + cost. I can't imagine this to be true otherwise. I'm a little upset that Spyderco decided to switch to G-10. I feel the blade of the knife isn't long enough to warrant G-10 + liners. Perhaps people were sending in their Natives with broken handles after "hard use"? I can't speak for Spyderco, but I felt that the knife was more than strong enough as is.
• Hole is still partially covered. I think this speaks for itself once you look at the pictures. This factor makes it fairly hard to deploy (unless your hands favor the smaller side).
• Full flat grinding! Definitely a plus for me! This blade shape makes it an awesome slicer
• While G-10 is heavier, I suppose it'd provide more traction for the hand. I'm still not looking forward to the weight and cost it'll add.
• No more rivets! Spyderco switched to screws! Not really a big deal for me but it probably is for some

Never had a problem opening my Native II SS with its partially covered hole, and I have large hands.Some may have problems, but not all.
Don't know that g10 is heavier than frn, and liners will probably wouldn't add a great amount of weight to the knife, besides if it didn't have liners what would you screw the clip to, and you wouldn't have screw construction that most like here.

[The General]

Is it just me or does the Native 4 look like a small Manix? :cool:

[The Deacon]

Never had a problem opening my Native II SS with its partially covered hole, and I have large hands.Some may have problems, but not all.
Don't know that g10 is heavier than frn, and liners will probably wouldn't add a great amount of weight to the knife, besides if it didn't have liners what would you screw the clip to, and you wouldn't have screw construction that most like here.

G-10's probably not heavier, at least not much. However, normal practice for Spyderco seems to be to nest the liners and use FRN backstraps on lined FRN knives while using full liners and steel backstraps on G-10 and CF handled ones. That, IMHO, is what accounts for the weight difference on the G-10 vs FRN Delica IV and Endura IV and on the CF vs FRN Stretch II.

[hiredgun]

Is it just me or does the Native 4 look like a small Manix? :cool:

This is what I call Spyderco Knife Evolution. As designs and styles evolve, some features tend to become very similar.

[ICSK]

G-10's probably not heavier, at least not much. However, normal practice for Spyderco seems to be to nest the liners and use FRN backstraps on lined FRN knives while using full liners and steel backstraps on G-10 and CF handled ones. That, IMHO, is what accounts for the weight difference on the G-10 vs FRN Delica IV and Endura IV and on the CF vs FRN Stretch II.

Thanks for the insight. I suppose we'll need to wait for the final weigh-in to see how much weight the knife gains by adding those liners. I noticed that you didn't mention anything regarding cost. While I didn't go too much into detail in my original post, I can't imagine the knife will be cheaper to produce due to the addition of G-10, steel backstraps, liners, and the skeletonization of those liners. While all these are great, I felt that the Native was Spyderco's budget CPM-S30V blade. I'm not sure if this will stay true for the Native 4. Again, we'll have to wait until Spyderco releases the knife and gives us a MSRP.

[The Deacon]

Thanks for the insight. I suppose we'll need to wait for the final weigh-in to see how much weight the knife gains by adding those liners. I noticed that you didn't mention anything regarding cost. While I didn't go too much into detail in my original post, I can't imagine the knife will be cheaper to produce due to the addition of G-10, steel backstraps, liners, and the skeletonization of those liners. While all these are great, I felt that the Native was Spyderco's budget CPM-S30V blade. I'm not sure if this will stay true for the Native 4. Again, we'll have to wait until Spyderco releases the knife and gives us a MSRP.

Here's the way I see it, which I'll be the first to admit may be wrong. The Seki built CF Native IV was a test for the Golden built G-10 version which, in turn will be a test for the FRN version, also to be built in Golden. Even the FRN Native IV will cost more, and be heavier, than the current FRN C41, but those are the inevitable trade offs for the type of construction the majority of people seem to want these days.

As for "how much" weight gain, depends on how you look at things. From where I sit, the Delica IV only weighs .5 oz more than the Delica III, but someone else may say it as weighs 25% more than its predecessor. I'd imagine weight gain on the FRN Native IV should be similar, so perhaps 3.2 oz rather than the current 2.65 and, again using Delica weights as a guide, up that another .75 oz for the G-10 version.

[v8r]

You can buy a Manix2 for not much more than the current generation FRN Native if you look around. It has to be far more complex to manufacture than a lock back knife.So I don't see it being rip your head off expensive. It is not hard to cut out the liners either, once you get the program down you can laser cut them by the hundreds in a hour. Once the liners are done throw them in the tumbler for a half hour to a hour, presto no sharp edges. Personally I don't think it would add much cost to the design.Besides everything is "more expensive" in the last few years.

[Blerv]

Did I miss the memo about them discontinuing the FRN C41?

If not, there is nothing to complain about. :p

[Joe Internet]

All I can say is that the Native is one heck of a knife. I would like to see the Native 4 keep the current blade profile, and leave the FFGing to Tom Krein.

But whatever happens... how about a trainer, even if it's a sprint run? :)

[SmoothOne25]

how about a trainer

no dont waist spy production money/time/energy on any trainer when the cf lum/jb rescue/leaf ukpk and black blade manix are still not out and summer is over?
i think we are all experienced and dont need them. :p ....that is unless tan frn is used in a production model? sal....

where is my black blade manix sal? please please please! im salavating in anticipation :o

[The Deacon]

Did I miss the memo about them discontinuing the FRN C41?

If not, there is nothing to complain about. :p

Could be. :D

IIRC, when the Seki built CF Native IV came out, Sal noted the "game plan" was for the Golden made FRN version to eventually replace the current C41. OTOH, there's probably still a good bit of time for "old school C41" fans to stockpile enough to last them several lifetimes. :D

[catamount]

The Native 5 should be of interest to steel junkies, at least, as it'll be the first (non-mule) :spyder: to use S35VN.

[bh49]

The Native 5 should be of interest to steel junkies, at least, as it'll be the first (non-mule) :spyder: to use S35VN.

Tom,
Will S35VN be used for regular production or sprint? FRN or G10?
Thanks,
Roman