Knife with prying blade

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jackknifeh
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Knife with prying blade

Postby jackknifeh » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:32 pm

People are always talking about not using a knife blade to pry with because knife blades are not made for prying and will probably chip or break. The reason this is such a much talked about issue is that prying is a task that is needed during a lot of day to day jobs that a knife is already being used on.

I have a Byrd Wings knife. The serrated blade is a sheepfoot with no point. Why not change to tip to the shape of a common screwdriver that could be used for prying? That way the tip will be stronger to withstand some prying strain. You would also have a common screwdriver as well. I have a multi-tool that had a file with a rounded tip. I filed the tip of the file to a flat shape and thinned it so it could be forced under something that I want to pry. I've been surprised how often I use it. If the serrated blade was shaped like this it would still be safe to use as a knife with little chance of puncturing something accidentally which is a benefit of the sheepfoot shaped blade. I know I would appreciate this type of tool and maybe others would like it also.

Jack

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gbelleh
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Postby gbelleh » Sun Sep 12, 2010 11:37 pm

I've also thought of this. Something like the Glock Endura, but with a small pry bar that folds out.

It seems like a good idea. I carry a Leatherman PS4 for non-blade tasks and it comes in very handy.
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Postby jeep45238 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 3:42 am

gbelleh wrote:I've also thought of this. Something like the Glock Endura, but with a small pry bar that folds out.


I think that's a much better way to accomplish the goal. Purpose built.

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Postby psychophipps » Mon Sep 13, 2010 4:55 am

Or you could get a Razel.

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The Deacon
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Postby The Deacon » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:12 am

jackknifeh wrote:The reason this is such a much talked about issue is that prying is a task that is needed during a lot of day to day jobs that a knife is already being used on.
Could you give an example or two? Can't recall the last time I ever needed to use a pocket knife to pry.
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Postby ChrisR » Mon Sep 13, 2010 5:25 am

Isn't that what the largest flat-head screwdriver in any set is for? :rolleyes: :p There's nothing that would make me use a Spyderco knife for prying - especially as you can get mini, keyring pry-bars that do the job better because they are designed for the purpose. Would you ever ask which is the best hammer for knocking screws in with? :D
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Postby jackknifeh » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:06 am

The Deacon wrote:Could you give an example or two? Can't recall the last time I ever needed to use a pocket knife to pry.
Deacon, I just read your post about 5 minutes ago and I can't remember what I was doing when I needed to pry something when all I had on me was a pocket knife. I don't remember what I was doing, I mean the specific job but I know I've had to stop what I was doing in a situation where I was doing something, only had my knife and had to go get something to pry with. This type of situation would have to be one that came up unexpectedly because if it were a job I knew I was going to do ahead of time I would have already gotten the tools I would need.

Your question did get me thinking which maybe I should have done prior to starting this thread. I still think I could use a knife with a pry bar tool, only for small prying jobs of course. Most of the time I have my multi-tool on me also so it is what I use when the need arises. So, I am going to give it some time and see when the next time is that I need to pry something and only have a knife on me. Having said that I realize I don't EDC my Wings knife. It stays on my tool belt which if I have that I already have a small pry/nail removal tool with me.

You may be right in that this idea may not be used enough for Spyderco to go to the trouble and expense to make one. At this point I think that is true.

Good thinking on your part as to would an idea if persued really be used enough to buy one. I for one already have enough tools that are great ideas but the number of times i've used them is minimal.

Jack

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Postby Splice » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:39 am

this is a bad idea for a few reasons.

First, the blade material itself. Blade steels are designed to be used as a blade, not for prying. Some steels are tougher than others, but none of them (as far as I know) were designed to resist bending on a day to day level.

Second, you would have to have a grind on the blade that would be equally strong on both sides, blade and spine. This would produce a blade style counter-productive to cutting.

Third, folders operate on a pivot system: the blade is allowed to rotate on a pivot (usually a pin tightened by a screw) and the tension is adjusted to allow easy deployment with no blade play. This system functions because the knife is intended to have stress working against the edged side of the blade and to a lesser degree on the spine, not side to side. Using a knife with a pry tip will introduce a great amount of strain on the pivot system resulting in a very loose action with lots of blade play.

Just get a mini pry bar instead. They're very cheap and easy to carry.

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Postby Evil D » Mon Sep 13, 2010 6:54 am

I can't remember the last time i needed to pry anything. I still don't get what the big deal is about prying with knives. Knives are for cutting, not prying.

Complaining that a knife isn't good for prying, is like saying your hammer isn't very good at cutting. It's the wrong tool for the job 100% of the time.
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Postby unit » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:06 am

I had a similar idea to modify a blade to serve as a prying tip...there is a problem.

It is a lot like jacking up a truck and putting on bigger tires and suspension...it only gets you deeper into the mud before you get stuck.

Prying with a prybar of any design that has a hinge in the middle is always going to be a flawed design compared to one without the hinge. Better to get yourself a mini-prybar for under 10 bucks and carry it in the other pocket...your knife will never break, bend, or become dull because the prying job was a liiiittle more than the knife could handle!

Can this idea be executed into a workable tool? Absolutely...but you can spend PILES of money engineering tougher pivots, better steels, and better geometry...and still have something that is ALMOST as good as a similar sized pry bar (that cost under 10 bucks).

Here is a picture of mine...it is stronger than me and it cost 6 dollars!
Image
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Postby Murdoc » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:14 am

If we are talking about LIGHT prying (not the type you actually would need a prybar for :D ), I would trust my Endura 4 (not the FFG one, the flat saber grind!) to be sturdy enough to be capable of handling a little (!) abuse without i.e. the pivot coming loose or the tip going bye-bye instantly. After all, that's why Sal changed the blade/tip style to the current shape: too much non-knife-afi's abuse with the E1-3's...

Really beating the crap out of ANY folder, especially prying, isn't going to work out well, we all know that; and after all, there's still no cut-out in the middle for nails, at least on Spydercos ;) . But the kind of force I can apply with these tiny little cute bonsai-prybars that go on a key ring is something I believe my thick E4 blade would be able to tolerate from time to time. If I know I'm gonna pry the whole day, I would of course still bring an appropriate tool though.

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Postby freeman7 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:18 am

But if you want to spend more than $10 ( a lot more) you could carry one of the neat little tools Peter Atwood makes. More efficient and more fun than prying with a knife.

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Postby marcus1 » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:38 am

I just thought of a perfect example of some light prying I do with a Knife, and have never seen anyone else use another tool to do this type of prying (certainly not a pry-bar for this task)... Separating frozen beef patties. You need a thin object to slip between two patties a light twist or prying motion.

There are many other situations where light prying is needed to seperating something that a cutting motion is not going to do. Yes, a pry-bar/screw driver would be much better (better = less likely to break the tool and work quicker), but as Jack stated there are many times you don't have the tools on you but you do have your EDC blade.

I have, and will still do it anytime I find the need, us my Endura/Manix2 to pry with (despite all the people on here who seem to think its a great sin or something).

Will I be upset if the blade breaks... sure... will I come rant here or at Spyderco?... of course not.

Would I like a stronger blade that could take prying... you bet! Can one be made (steel that can still be a good knife)? I have no idea and leave it to Spyderco/etc to find/make one.

just my 2c.
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Postby unit » Mon Sep 13, 2010 7:46 am

marcus1 wrote:Separating frozen beef patties. You need a thin object to slip between two patties a light twist or prying motion.
I hate to sound argumentative, but I simply use the same tool that I will later use to flip the patty on the grill. Ice, sharp edge, prying motion, my hands...bad combination.

I do not want to go through every proposed EDC prying task though. Some guys pry with their knives, some knives are better than others for this stuff. My point was that the BEST prybar-masquerading-as-a-folder in the world will still be a lesser tool than a real pry bar....and it gives up something the knife (cutting) category to accomplish this.

If your needs are somewhere in between serious prying, and serious cutting...the saber Spydercos are a realistic choice.

This thread was about modifying a knife to make one blade into a dedicated pry-er...My suggestion is to tie a lanyard onto a single bladed knife and hang a pry bar on that lanyard...Voila!
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Postby LorenzoL » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:45 am

Jack, I understand your point, you just chose the wrong forum to ask your question. Everything here is about slicing...

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Postby FIMS » Mon Sep 13, 2010 8:50 am

The Deacon wrote:Could you give an example or two? Can't recall the last time I ever needed to use a pocket knife to pry.
Same here. I would never use any of my knives to pry, save for a beater POS for that purpose.

However I would say the Buck Bravo would fit the bill somewhat.

Blunted end for this reason, wide blade.
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Postby The Deacon » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:25 am

marcus1 wrote:I just thought of a perfect example of some light prying I do with a Knife, and have never seen anyone else use another tool to do this type of prying (certainly not a pry-bar for this task)... Separating frozen beef patties. You need a thin object to slip between two patties a light twist or prying motion.

There are many other situations where light prying is needed to seperating something that a cutting motion is not going to do. Yes, a pry-bar/screw driver would be much better (better = less likely to break the tool and work quicker), but as Jack stated there are many times you don't have the tools on you but you do have your EDC blade.

I have, and will still do it anytime I find the need, us my Endura/Manix2 to pry with (despite all the people on here who seem to think its a great sin or something).

Will I be upset if the blade breaks... sure... will I come rant here or at Spyderco?... of course not.

Would I like a stronger blade that could take prying... you bet! Can one be made (steel that can still be a good knife)? I have no idea and leave it to Spyderco/etc to find/make one.

just my 2c.
On the rare occasions when there's a good enough sale to make me buy more that a burger's worth of hamburger meat at a time, they get frozen one to a bag. Not to mention there's a perfectly good cleaver in my kitchen, plus a metal spatula like Unit's. Beyond that, if the only tool I had was an ultra thin bladed folder, I'd warm the blade repeatedly and take my time rather than going gorilla. Light prying situations outside of the kitchen may exist, but I can't think of any, and certainly not any that occur frequently, which was why I asked.

As for the rest, we are all free to do with our own property as we see fit. Lord knows I've destroyed things far more expensive than the average Spyderco pushing my luck, and their limits, too far. :o :D
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Postby Evil D » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:28 am

You guys prying frozen burgers apart must not have microwaves. A minute on defrost will soften them up enough to slip a spatula between them with minimal effort. Me and my folders are really close but i don't think i'd bother pulling one out just to pry burgers apart LOL
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Postby dj moonbat » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:36 am

If you really, really need to pry something, and there's nothing else to use, obviously you'll just break your knife without a second thought. If you don't really, really need to pry it that badly, you'll probably spend the 45 seconds or so it takes you to improvise a less-expensive lever.

Taking this third path -- modifying a perfectly good slicer so that you always have instant access to a not-very-good prying device -- sounds like a poor compromise.

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Postby Zendemic » Mon Sep 13, 2010 9:39 am

If you really want something to pry with (and still have an edge) check out the EOD breacher bar. I don't own myself, but i've seen them in person, and they are pretty flippin' hefty. Or those mini Widgey bars are pretty EDC friendly. As for prying, I always have a multi-tool in my bag, and I haven't come across an everyday prying task that couldn't be solved (or damaged any of my blades for that matter).


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