What materials do you think a "tough" folder can't cut?

[chuck_roxas45]

I keep hearing that "tough" folders can't cut. So what materials do you guys often come across that need cutting, that a tough folder can't cut? I'm sure there are job related tasks like Unit's that really require an optimized cutter but for most of the people carrying and using knives, what do you use your slicing knife on that can't be cut by a "tough" folder?

Lemme add something:
What tasks that thin knives do that "tough" can't do well enough? Let's take slicing a tomato for a BLT samwich, "tough" won't cut it as thin as thin knives but they can cut it well enough to use in the BLT. Or say cheese,( :D smile) I'd think a tough knife can cut cheese well enough to make it into bite size pieces.

[Ankerson]

I keep hearing that "tough" folders can't cut.

Not sure who is saying that, whomever they are they are wrong.

[The General]

A rubber duck.

[spyderHS08]

Diamonds!

[The General]

Two rubber ducks... quack quack quack!

[chuck_roxas45]

Well, some people seem to be evading the issue, or should I say "ducking"? :D

[spyderHS08]

Lol in all honesty I think its just kind of what you think its capable of. Obviously your blades wont cut bricks, or glass but you can make them baton through wood and cut super thick carpet if need be. Other hard use tasks I would say include large amounts of rope or getting into those god damned clam packs! Making kindling wood, cutting up 100 cardboard boxes...the list goes on. As long as its not a stupid task that cannot be done, I think hard use folders will go through just about anything softer than rocks!! :cool:

Oh and if theyre tough folders cant cut....They clearly need better knives!!

[jzmtl]

I'm sure it can cut anything a "non-tough" folder can cut, rather it's a matter of performance. Just like while a main battle tank could drive through a windy mountain road a Ferrari can, but not in the same time and efficiency.

[chuck_roxas45]

I'm sure it can cut anything a "non-tough" folder can cut, rather it's a matter of performance. Just like while a main battle tank could drive through a windy mountain road a Ferrari can, but not in the same time and efficiency.

I don't that think tough knives are that inefficient in cutting. Can you name a material that you cut routinely that your knife can handle optimally that the tough knife will have difficulty cutting?

We're talking about real world legitimate tasks here not knifesturbation like hair whittling or TP cutting. Even though I'm sure that tough knives can a handle those too.

The most often presented argument against tough is that they can't cut and that they are merely sharpened prybars.

[jzmtl]

Well like I said, it can handle the task, but generally more effort is required to perform them.

Case in point, I just cut an apple in half and removed the core with tenacious, which while is not a tough folder, does share some similar traits like wider and thicker blade, more obtuse point. The thicker blade tend to wedge in and split the apple than cut it, the more obtuse tip is harder to control when stab into the apple, and wide blade is difficult to twist while inside apple to remove the core. The same task would be almost effortless with an Opinel #6, which has much thinner and pointier blade.

[chuck_roxas45]

Well like I said, it can handle the task, but generally more effort is required to perform them.

Case in point, I just cut an apple in half and removed the core with tenacious, which while is not a tough folder, does share some similar traits like wider and thicker blade, more obtuse point. The thicker blade tend to wedge in and split the apple than cut it, the more obtuse tip is harder to control when stab into the apple, and wide blade is difficult to twist while inside apple to remove the core. The same task would be almost effortless with an Opinel #6, which has much thinner and pointier blade.

I'm sure that's true, but it sure doesn't make the apple impossible to eat.

[jzmtl]

I'm sure people meant it can't cut as well, not literally it won't cut.

But here's question, as long as you stay within reasonable tasks for a folder, what can a tough folder do but can't be done with a regular folder?

[chuck_roxas45]

I'm sure people meant it can't cut as well, not literally it won't cut.

But here's question, as long as you stay within reasonable tasks for a folder, what can a tough folder do but can't be done with a regular folder?

I guess that that's for a whole 'nother thread.

The point of a tough folder is the capacity it has to do things that are unreasonable for a regular folder.

[Blerv]

I think your taking peoples comparison and turning it into a gross exaggeration.

Every instance a "thick" blade is compared to a "slicer" is exactly that. Of course it can cut just like I can cut steak with a butter knife. It just takes more pressure.

The real factor is with my Stretch, Cento, Caly Jr, etc I'm packing 1.9-3.4 ounces. They slice better than my Manix2 154cm at over 5oz and are slimmer in the pocket.

My question to you is why carry the weight if I won't use it? It a Cento4 will out slice a knife half its weight for SD and is legal why should I carry a 4" tacti-tanto?

I like beefy knives. They don't slice like thin ones (it's geometry). Thin knives don't take abuse. Since my knife has a thumb ramp and not a foot-rest (like a shovel) I'll assume it was designed for light cutting.

You and some other folks have mirrored the same topic for weeks. I don't really know what you're expecting out of it. If the company IS making both why try so hard to convince us to change our minds. This isn't door-to-door ministry :) .

I'm going to continue buying BOTH kinds just like most the people on this forum. I feel most are unbiased and see the benefit of having different tools rather than a single-focused ideology.

[The General]

Serious question now. Why do you need to keep starting threads about every single possible aspect of tough folding freaking knives?

Its artificially making it look like the three or four people with a hard use agenda have a lot of support.

Can't you keep this discussion to one or two threads?

Its annoying me and reading what others have said, I am not the only one.

Lets see what Spyderco bring out.

[jzmtl]

So back to my tank/car analogy, sure you can drive off the road and hit a few telephone poles and run over a few parked cars with the tank, but those are the things you should really avoid to begin with. Do you want something that can take the occasional mischief but but doesn't work well 100% of the time, or something works great 99% of the time but need some care in use?

Me, I prefer the latter. But then again there are people who commute to work and pick up grocery in their noisy V10 diesel full size trucks.

[chuck_roxas45]

Well, it's all about presenting opinion right? I was told that it was everybody's god-given right to present their opinion on the 'net. If spyderco does not make any abuse rated folders, that's no butthurt to me.

My opinion has been ridiculed and questioned in a few other threads. When I expressed an annoyance for explaining further the rationale for abuse rated folders, I was said to be hostile.

I am now bringing up a valid issue about what abuse rated folders can do as a cutting tool for which these kinds of folders have been said to be lacking in. And still I'm wrong? Some people chose to continue their hostility for abuse rated folders. They could have ceased and desisted and the issue would have wound down long ago. I now feel the need to make and clarify a point.

Oh, and I'm not trying to change anyone's mind about their choices. God forbid. What I'm trying to do is to change minds about their hostility for abuse rated folders. If I can't, at least I tried.When I believe in something, I believe it with a passion. This is my passion showing. Should I just go quietly into the night? Nope, not my style. if other guys are sticking to their argument and wanting to have the last word, well......

[Blerv]

Here is my last word on moderation, I promise it don't drag on like normal :) .

I believe you get to a basic point where you net most of the results for a little work. Going further to polish performance eventually drives price up past "value" or takes away from another category.

The more extreme in any direction the bigger the flaw elsewhere. Brutish folders, fragile slicers, or semi-customs costing 8 times a Delica.

I drove a track suspension MR2 Spyder for a year. Race springs that were twice as stiff, adjustable Koni struts, over 2 degrees of negative camber and SOFT "street" tires. It would give you a migrane in the corners and was fun. Still, one-sided and a pain in the *** (literally).

Mankind is great at extreme. We are horrible at moderation.

[chuck_roxas45]

Here is my last word on moderation, I promise it don't drag on like normal :) .

I believe you get to a basic point where you net most of the results for a little work. Going further to polish performance eventually drives price up past "value" or takes away from another category.

The more extreme in any direction the bigger the flaw elsewhere. Brutish folders, fragile slicers, or semi-customs costing 8 times a Delica.

I drove a track suspension MR2 Spyder for a year. Race springs that were twice as stiff, adjustable Koni struts, over 2 degrees of negative camber and SOFT "street" tires. It would give you a migrane in the corners and was fun. Still, one-sided and a pain in the *** (literally).

Mankind is great at extreme. We are horrible at moderation.

Yes, I totally agree and as I have offered many times in the past threads, should we all just agree to disagree?

And I hope nobody else comes to "express" their opinions about how stupid or dumb an abuse rated knife is because I will then have to find another way of defending my opinion.

[Blerv]

There is nothing wrong with expressing an opinion. When people get emotional it gets bad. Nothing worse than a bleeding ego. I don't feel anyone was attacking intentionally.

I agree with many points Chuck (as many do too). Just remember that opinions swing both ways and everyone has one.

This is a better forum than most. The best I have seen. It is definitely a diverse group of minds though, good and bad. :)

should we all just agree to disagree?

Yes and I bet we all agree more than we even know. After all, we are all remotely mature folks who collect pocket knives. Rational is a very relative concept! Haha.