Sharpening CPM-S30V

[AJF]

I'm a novice with my Sharpmaker, but have been pleased with the results I've been able to achieve on softer steels, and even up to VG10. Now, I'm excited to have a Sage 1 on the way, and am wondering how much more difficult it will be to maintain its CPM-S30V edge?

Any experience, advice on Sharpmaker technique, wisdom, etc., would be much appreciated. Thanks in advance.

Andrew

[npueppke]

I actually have an easier time sharpening S30V than VG-10, I'm not really sure why. I think it's because it's easier to get S30V to form a burr. Just use light pressure and you shouldn't have any trouble. I use the corners on the medium stones-I start off with 15 or 20 passes, check for a burr by running my finger off the edge of the blade and feeling for it. Then I do the same on the other side.

After this I move to the white stones-you can also feel the burr here but I usually just do something like 20 passes on each side, then 10, then 5, then 2, then 1, and finish off with a few very light strokes alternating sides.

[AJF]

npueppke, thanks for sharing your technique. For just touchups, do you go straight to the white/fine rods, or do you still start with the brown? And, are you skipping the flat sides as to both rods and only using the corners?

Thanks,

Andrew

[kawr]

I agree. I dont find it any more difficult to sharpen S30V compared to VG-10. However it literally takes me 45 seconds to sharpen something softer like 8cr13mov. For some odd reason though, Benchmade's S30V is much harder to sharpen. I just cant get it hair popping sharp the way I can on the S30V on my Sage. Must be inferior heat treat I hear about by BM and that they run their S30V a bit softer compared to others.

[ChrisR]

Has anyone worked out a scale for the number of strokes on a Sharpmaker each steel takes? Like, if it takes 10 strokes working down to 1 each side to get 8cr13mov touched-up and 20 strokes to 1 for S30V ... what does ZDP take? :D

[BlackNinja]

I have no trouble at all with s30v. It’s one of the easiest (powdered) steels to put a scary-sharp edge on, IMO, your opinion may vary. The only steel that’s easier for me to put a similar (or better) edge is INFI :eek: okay, enter foot-in-mouth. But really, its how the steel was treated that makes a big difference, IMO. For example, I had a folder that cost over $500 (not saying what Co.) which was made from s30v that I could NEVER keep a good edge on, it was dreadful to sharpen and NEVER got as sharp as I wanted it! Whereas at :spyder: , my s30v Para2 came to me hair-splitting sharp. :spyder: :eek: Also, I try not to let any of my knives get too dull, I think that’s pretty important. If you let s30v or any steel get too dull, you may have to re-profile to get a good edge, which can take hours (at least for me).
I hate sharpening 440v, 154cm & AUS…, and ZDP can be a pain, especially if I dull it.
My 2c.

-Joe

EDIT: I didn't even get a chance to read the posts here before I posted! The general consensus here seems to be in agreement that Spyderco's s30v is premium and easy to sharpen!

[AJF]

Thanks for the helpful replies. In the SM video, Sal demonstrates by doing alternate single strokes. Sounds like a lot of folks around here do multiple strokes on one side till a burr is formed, then do the other side. What are everyone's ideas on technique?

[gull wing]

Just a little note on Benchmade. Benchmades are not full flat ground as the Sage is, leaving a steeper angle, thus you must remove more metal on a Benchmade. Benchmades are fine knives just makes a difference in in how you sharpen.

I would much rather sharpen my sage than say my Ritter grip.

[jzmtl]

One side only is better for when you don't know if you are hitting the edge, because burr is sure sign that you are. But if you already know you are (i.e. using the 40° slot on factory edge), then alternate side minimize burr formation and save you the effort of burr removal later on.

[unit]

Has anyone worked out a scale for the number of strokes on a Sharpmaker each steel takes? Like, if it takes 10 strokes working down to 1 each side to get 8cr13mov touched-up and 20 strokes to 1 for S30V ... what does ZDP take? :D

I am not sure such a thing would be possible. Sharpening is a simple process of grinding and polishing two intersecting surfaces (a bevel on each side of the knife). There are many factors regarding how long or how many strokes that process takes. Lets talk about only 2. The size of the area to be polished, and how irregular that surface is to start with.

Knife geometry dictates that not all bevels are the same size (even if they are at the same relative angle). To get a little deeper into what I mean, some knives have very thin grinds and others are thicker. A 30 degree bevel on a thick grind will result in a larger area (face of bevel) to be polished than the same 30 degrees on a thinner grind.

Even if you had IDENTICAL knives except for the steel, you still are going to have variable depth or extent of edge damage/degradation that needs to be polished out (how dull is the edge?). This speaks to the irregularity of the surface to start with. Remember everyone defines "dull" and "sharp" differently.

I apologize if this is confusing. I just wanted to give some rationale as to why you do not see charts for # of strokes for various steels.

[ChrisR]

That's fine - yeah I see your point - every knife is different really and the steel is only part of it :) I just worry sometimes that I give up too early when sharpening - then wonder why I can't get a decent edge on some knives.

Sounds like I really need to get used to feeling the burr and then working on that - if I get it then I am doing fine - just alternate and keep going through the grits. :)

[unit]

That's fine - yeah I see your point - every knife is different really and the steel is only part of it :) I just worry sometimes that I give up too early when sharpening - then wonder why I can't get a decent edge on some knives.

Sounds like I really need to get used to feeling the burr and then working on that - if I get it then I am doing fine - just alternate and keep going through the grits. :)

Yup! There are lots of ways to assess the work (magic marker, light and magnification, feel the burr, etc.). It takes patience and concentration to develop a talent for sharpening, and it really is a lot like art. Basically, you are sculpting a piece of steel into a tool every time you sharpen.

It is critical to step back and look at your work to make sure it is progressing in the direction you want it to. Sharpenign is quite challenging because that work is at a very small scale and you either need magnification, or other means of "observation".

Have fun, and be careful not to slip into obsession with this...it is a slippery slope!

This sharpening thread started a while back might be helpful to some here?
http://www.spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=44220

[ChrisR]

Yeah, I was quite pleased when I got some Japanese water-stones and tried the marker trick. I could check the angle easily and the marks on the stone told me when I was removing metal (and marker!). I should probably just have more faith in my work (I have put some good edges on some knives) and keep practicing :D

[Water Bug]

I've found sharpening a Spyderco UK Penknife (in S30V) easier than sharpening any other :spyder: in FFG and in VG-10. I really am not sure why, but that's the way it happened. It could be due to the "sharpness" of the respective blade/steel to start with.

I also prefer to do the "alternating" of sides in sharpening on the Spyderco Sharpmaker. I do this because that's how my father taught me (although he never used the Sharpmaker as he did all his sharpening by hand on standard Arkansas and related flat stones). The only time I do several strokes on one side of the blade is when I find one side of the edge is sharp and the other is not. This is perhaps due to the burr or perhaps uneven grinds. I had to do a lot of work on the main blade of my Leatherman Super Tool 200 with the Sharpmaker's Spyderco Grey Tri-Angle Stones to get the edge to satisfactory sharpness, and that steel (420HD, I believe) is not necessarily on par with VG-10 or S30V.

I also concur with those that noted you should NOT let your edge go dull... do that and you're in a world of hurt to get the edge back to sharp; longer if your blade is made of a hard cutting steel.

[npueppke]

npueppke, thanks for sharing your technique. For just touchups, do you go straight to the white/fine rods, or do you still start with the brown? And, are you skipping the flat sides as to both rods and only using the corners?

Thanks,

Andrew

I have a hard time holding the knife consistently straight enough to keep the edge in constant contact with the flat edge, so I usually don't use them, but recently I've started experimenting with finishing off with a few strokes on the flats and it seems to work. I usually switch straight from the brown corners to the white corners and it seems to work great. I also touch up on only the white stones. The main technique I use is going to less and less strokes per side (and I also try to use as light of a stroke as I can at the end) in order to get a really nice edge.

I'm not great at sharpening by any means but I can get them sharp enough to shave hairs this way. I have some old posts where I talk about sharpening but really don't know what I'm talking about, but this method works great for me.

I also forgot to mention that I do all of this on the 40 degree setting. If I eve wear the edge down enough to where I can't sharpen anymore, I'm going to buy some diamond sharpmaker rods and try to reprofile to 30 degrees so I can start over on the 40 degree setting with the brown and white stones.

[ChrisR]

I like stropping to keep my edges nice and sharp - I think regular stropping on a piece of leather-backed oak reduces the need to go back to the stones so often :)

[AJF]

npueppke, thanks for the additional info. And, congrats on 1000 posts! I've kept my Caly 3 VG10 at 30 degrees, and have been happy with how well it holds that edge.

Chris, I'm a big believer in strops/leather hones, as I have some great convex knives (Bark River), and have acquired a nice assortment for use on them. Recently, after reacquainting myself with my Sharpmaker, I've had such good---and easy---results touching up with the white rods, that I've actually dulled the edge a few times by stropping. :confused: I'm guessing that my eye/hand coordination just isn't as good as the SM's simple method of maintaining an angle, and so at times I've stropped at too high an angle, slightly rolling the edge.

Ken, I just viewed one of your videos (sharpie demo), and it was great---quick, simple, and to the point. Looking forward to seeing the rest.

What great sharpening info. on this forum. I have been benefiting from reading everyone's tips and techniques. I enjoy sharpening, even with my modest skills, and find it very relaxing to get quiet and calm and focus on the process. It really does fully engage 3 senses: sight, sound, and touch, and when they're all in sync, it is a beautiful thing. :)

Andrew

[JNewell]

I sharpen only on the flats for most knives. I've found the greatest aid to keeping the blade vertical is to hold the Sharpmaker in place on an appropriate height countertop and stand over the sharpener and blade. I can't keep it straight if I'm seated. YMMV...

[dj moonbat]

Ken, I want to view your videos---they look great. For some reason, I can't get sound on any at present, so I need figure out if something's gone haywire on my laptop.

I don't have the seed money, so somebody else needs to fund what clearly MUST happen: an angle-adjustable jig that holds DMT stones at precise angles relative to horizontal, just the way the Sharpmaker holds the stones angled relative to vertical. Please, somebody, make Ken's methodology available to those of us without the means to set up such a good rig.

[TrojanDonkey]

I have a Native and it has S30V. It was sharp from the factory but it felt like a micro serrated edge (burr?). I THOUGHT it would be too hard to strop-wrong.I stropped it and now it is polished and scary sharp.I agree with BlackNinja that it is easier to sharpen than AUS 8. I can barely get my AUS 8 BlackHawk BEWHARNED knife shaving sharp.VG10 and S30V is harder but I can put a great edge on them free handed.