nozh2002 wrote:It seems like boycott is very popular idea here...
Now this kind of suggestions imply that company is ignorant and do not listen to customer concerns and needs and never adjust direction even when toke wrong turn.
Why do you think Spyderco is ignorant and does not listen to their supporters?
Thanks, Vassili.
You're trying to twist words, but whatever you wanna think. I don't buy things that make me unhappy. Perhaps it makes you happy to complain for no other reason than to read your own words. I don't know. Whatever floats your boat.
And if you're a supporter, I'd love to see who's against them :confused:
Thanks, Pete
Spyopera
SFKW sugilite Kiwi
CRK Small Sebenza 31
Far too many sold...:o
nozh2002 wrote:We are not talknig about best practice. Spyderco lowering standard in warranty. Before it was OK now it is not. Whatever reason they have - cost cutting or whatever, but before their fair, honest and proper warranty was different then now.
Now it is same as Benchmade and they just walk away once I clean and oil my knife myself.
Thanks, Vassili.
Actually, Spyderco is not lowering the standard of their warranty. It is, unfortunately, yours and a few others personal interpretation that they are.
And, no, you don't have to take a folding knife apart to get it clean and in good operating condition. Although it may not be a Spyderco, I have a Buck 110 Folding Hunter that isn't designed to be taken apart without a lot of effort on the owners part or without sending it to Buck. Over the last 31 years, this knife...
- Skinned and gutted an armadillo clogging the pivot and all other moving parts with dried blood, guts, few other disgusting things, as well as sand and dirt. It was thoroughly washed out, but I was unable to lubricate for a couple of weeks because I didn't have a lubricant readily available. It still worked fine.
- It's been dunked multiple times in muddy water and mud during several wading expeditions in marshy conditions. It was once used to cut one of the tail ridges of a large alligator to mark it while the herpetologists wrestled with it. Each time mud, silt, and sand infiltrated the moving parts. Again, thoroughly rinsed it under the tap and this time lubricated it with Vasoline petrolium jelly.
- It was with me in a cave rapidly filling water during a rainstorm. Silt and sand again infiltrated the moving parts. Again, thoroughly washed it out and again had no lubricant readily available, yet it worked fine.
- And, simply carrying the knife in its shealth and exposed to the blowing West Texas dust is enough to get sand and grit into the moving parts. A good lubrication took care of it.
That knife has been through 31 years of stuff like that and then some, and it's still in fine operation condition without once being taken apart to be cleaned.
chuck_roxas45 wrote:
The knives for their purpose are fine. It's just the new direction of the company that's getting to be a con(as opposed to pro) for me.
I guess you have to decide if cons trump the pros or vice versa. I decided a few years ago I wasn't pleased with where a certain company had gone with some of their products to the point of getting rid of the knives I had from them. I still love some of their designs and might even get them again, but not at this point. It's still not worth the sour taste I get from where they went. Maybe you should put them away for a while and see if there's a void left from not using them. Just throwing it out there.
Spyopera
SFKW sugilite Kiwi
CRK Small Sebenza 31
Far too many sold...:o
That's right, we do have to weigh things. However, since I have knives that work for me, I would like to have things clear in my mind. And as Nozh2000 said we do have to make that attempt to make our opinions known.
Water Bug wrote:Actually, Spyderco is not lowering the standard of their warranty. It is, unfortunately, yours and a few others personal interpretation that they are.
Well, wording was pretty clear - warranty does not cover damage caused by disassembling. Now it is any disassembling void warranty. Difference is absolutely clear, it is not interpretation it is written in letters right there.
Refuse to fix manufacturing damage because knife was disassembled is lowering standard. This mean I void my warranty when I clean and oil knife or if screw heads got somehow scratched.
Water Bug wrote:And, no, you don't have to take a folding knife apart to get it clean and in good operating condition. Although it may not be a Spyderco, I have a Buck 110 Folding Hunter that isn't designed to be taken apart without a lot of effort on the owners part or without sending it to Buck. Over the last 31 years, this knife...
- Skinned and gutted an armadillo clogging the pivot and all other moving parts with dried blood, guts, few other disgusting things, as well as sand and dirt. It was thoroughly washed out, but I was unable to lubricate for a couple of weeks because I didn't have a lubricant readily available. It still worked fine.
- It's been dunked multiple times in muddy water and mud during several wading expeditions in marshy conditions. It was once used to cut one of the tail ridges of a large alligator to mark it while the herpetologists wrestled with it. Each time mud, silt, and sand infiltrated the moving parts. Again, thoroughly rinsed it under the tap and this time lubricated it with Vasoline petrolium jelly.
- It was with me in a cave rapidly filling water during a rainstorm. Silt and sand again infiltrated the moving parts. Again, thoroughly washed it out and again had no lubricant readily available, yet it worked fine.
- And, simply carrying the knife in its shealth and exposed to the blowing West Texas dust is enough to get sand and grit into the moving parts. A good lubrication took care of it.
That knife has been through 31 years of stuff like that and then some, and it's still in fine operation condition without once being taken apart to be cleaned.
You will not make me believe that it is possible to clean and oil pivot area without disassemble (even with hundreds of alligators on your side and backyard sprinkles only on my). I can imagine sand, dust, dirt in there skweeking every time I open and close it - but I do not like this "good operating condition".
I like it work smooth as a gun. You can not open Buck 110 with swing of you wrist - it is not designed this way, but Military and other Spyderco knives does and this make them less tolerant to sand and dust in the pivot.
Of course everything will eventually fall out especially if you open and close it hundred times under stream of water. but it may take weeks to get fixed and most likely scratch that area, causing permanent damage, so you will stuck with your "good operating condition" forever.
I prefer to disassemble it clean and oil in few minutes.
flipe8 wrote:You're trying to twist words, but whatever you wanna think. I don't buy things that make me unhappy. Perhaps it makes you happy to complain for no other reason than to read your own words. I don't know. Whatever floats your boat.
And if you're a supporter, I'd love to see who's against them :confused:
Thanks, Pete
I think you should focus on matter of this discussion and do not tell me or anybody else what to do, do not analyze my reasons and word. If you feel uncomfortable discussing warranty issue or somehow think that this is not appropriate to disagree with Spyderco - just do not participate rather then turn it to some silly personal fight.
And yes I am supporter, I like Spyderco and things they doing.
I am not fanboy and honestly I truly believe that aggressive fanboys do great disservice to company, which need to know what customers like and what they don't.
nozh2002 wrote:
... honestly I truly believe that aggressive fanboys do great disservice to company, which need to know what customers like and what they don't.
nozh2002 wrote:Well, wording was pretty clear - warranty does not cover damage caused by disassembling. Now it is any disassembling void warranty. Difference is absolutely clear, it is not interpretation it is written in letters right there.
Refuse to fix manufacturing damage because knife was disassembled is lowering standard. This mean I void my warranty when I clean and oil knife or if screw heads got somehow scratched.
You will not make me believe that it is possible to clean and oil pivot area
.
Thanks, Vassili.
What in your mind constitutes "manufacturing damage"? Should they fix a broken/stripped screw that the knife owner/disassembler stripped or cross threaded for nothing? Yes the owner may have had good intentions of just cleaning and oiling the knife, but maybe cross threaded some screws while reassembling the knife.Is this "manufacturing damage"?Should this be covered under warranty?Did the knife come from Spyderco with stripped threads, and possibly parts installed incorrectly?
Yes you can clean a knife without disassembly.A little dishwashing soap and hot water does the trick for me really well.
V8R
Opinions are like belly buttons most people have one:p
nozh2002 wrote:Well, wording was pretty clear - warranty does not cover damage caused by disassembling. Now it is any disassembling void warranty. Difference is absolutely clear, it is not interpretation it is written in letters right there.
Perhaps you should take into consideration Spyderco's "Basic Knife Maintenance" that is also part of the Spyderco Warranty page...
nozh2002 wrote:I prefer to disassemble it clean and oil in few minutes.
In which case you may have voided the warranty by disassembling it. If you read the "Basic Knife Maintenance" on the Spyderco Warranty page, nowhere does it say to disassemble your knife to clean it...
BASIC KNIFE MAINTENANCE:
Insure safe operation by regularly inspecting the knife’s interior for lint, obstructions, etc. Clean the lock well and inside the handle using a toothpick, hot water and detergent. Rinse with fresh water, dry inside and out and lubricate steel components with oil/silicone. A sharp knife makes cutting easier and safer and lengthens its usable life. Like any tool, knives do wear out.
If you choose to disassemble your knife to clean it, that's your call and you do so at the risk of voiding the warranty. Disassembling a Spyderco knife to clean it is not part of Spyderco's written, recommended procedure to the customer for cleaning the knife.
ChrisR wrote:
A warranty is pretty much a promise by the company to replace or repair an item come what may but the company has to be released from the promise if the customer might have done something to the knife that damages it.
Wrong. A warranty covers defects in materials or workmanship. It doesn't cover deliberate or negligent damage, normal wear and tear, or a host of other things I've seen people whine about.
nozh2002 wrote:I am using my knife and if it is dipped in the mud - when repair broken backyard sprinkler this mud got in the pivot area. This can not be cleane with scrub brush without disassemble. I this is not mud but Pacific ocean water - brush and soap will not help as well.
I know what I am talking about. Of course many people do not use knives at all - for then this warranty make sence - but they most likely never need it on the first place.
Thanks, Vassili.
That's odd. I've cleaned literally hundreds of knives without disassembling them.
nozh2002 wrote:Are you suggesting to start boycotting Spyderco? Interesting. Some kind of embargo on Spyderco etc...
I rather present my point of view and hope that they listen. I think I express my reasons clear. I like this company, but I am not fanboy, I think this is wrong and will only hurt Spyderco image.
Thanks, Vassili.
I think their image is pretty safe.
araneae wrote:Are there still any of the usual forum alarmists/dissidents/malcontents/whiners that we're waiting on to chime in here? :rolleyes:
Just me.
nozh2002 wrote:Did you actually dip your knife into mud or saltwater or sand dust? This is critical point, because if you don't - then you point perfectly valid. But if you really dip it the way I did sometimes - I do not believe you clean them by sprayng.
I disassemble my knife and wipe dirt and sand from pivot area and I am absolutely positive that this is impossible to do without disassembling.
So are you talking about same experience I had or ti is about casual collection maintenance?
Thanks, Vassili.
I worked in landscaping, including underground sprinkler repair, for about 8 years. I've had quite a few knives packed solid with mud, clay, sand, manure, mulch and compost. I've also cleaned a few sewer lines and had much worse in there. I've worked with caustics and acids that make seawater look drinkable by comparison. I don't recall ever having to disassemble one just to clean it.
nozh2002 wrote:It seems like boycott is very popular idea here...
I believe suggestion would be a better word for it. It is possible that I'm not the only one who feels this place would be better off without you.
QUOTE=nozh2002;597901]Now this kind of suggestions imply that company is ignorant and do not listen to customer concerns and needs and never adjust direction even when toke wrong turn.[/QUOTE]
I don't believe the company would stay in business for over twenty-five years if they were ignorant. They don't listen to customer concerns? That's a joke, right? The simple fact that the CEO of the company takes time to read these forums and answer our questions disproves that. If you think turning off the road to bankruptcy through warranty abuse is a wrong turn, you've got a lot to learn about business.
QUOTE=nozh2002;597901]Why do you think Spyderco is ignorant and does not listen to their supporters?
Thanks, Vassili.[/QUOTE]
I certainly hope you aren't including yourself in that group. And you might want to consider looking up the word "ignorant". I don't think it means what you seem to think it means.
The fact that I even opened this thread tells me I need to take a long vacation from this forum. Maybe I'll see you next year.
I don't believe in safe queens, only in pre-need replacements.
If you mess up your own knife, Spyderco can tell. What I think is being said here is if you dis assemble your own knife, do not automatically expect them to do any work for free.
It will be treated on a case by case basis and entirely fairly.
Knowing what Spyderco are like, if there is evidence that a knife has been taken to bits but no damage was caused by this and the damage to the knife or reason for return is unrelated I would expect this to be held in the owners favour. However, each return on its own merits.
Some of you guys make it sound like the good people at Spyderco are trying to weasel out of the warranty and that is bang out of order.
BASIC KNIFE MAINTENANCE:
Insure safe operation by regularly inspecting the knife’s interior for lint, obstructions, etc. Clean the lock well and inside the handle using a toothpick, hot water and detergent. Rinse with fresh water, dry inside and out and lubricate steel components with oil/silicone. A sharp knife makes cutting easier and safer and lengthens its usable life. Like any tool, knives do wear out.
I am not sure. I am looking at this text you quote and do not see any words about disassembling voiding warranty. How did you find it there? BTW it is about cleaning lock...
yablanowitz wrote:I worked in landscaping, including underground sprinkler repair, for about 8 years. I've had quite a few knives packed solid with mud, clay, sand, manure, mulch and compost. I've also cleaned a few sewer lines and had much worse in there. I've worked with caustics and acids that make seawater look drinkable by comparison. I don't recall ever having to disassemble one just to clean it.
Well, and what condition of that knives you have after cleaning it without disassembling? I guess - "good operating condition" again.
Sorry, but all this alligators and sewer lines mentioned will never make me believe that it is possible to clean knife without disassembling - I had all those sand and dust and salewater in my knives many times and finally learned that to clean it and oil properly I have to disassemble - otherwise it will be for weeks sand in pivot and mechanics will not work as new (well it will be able to operate - cut of course).
Wow I'm starting to wish there was more talk of rope cut tests :) .
Listen, if Spyderco can't tell you re-assembled a knife chances are they won't void your warranty. You know why not? Because they can't read your mind. Technically it is void but it's not...you get it?
If they can tell it's been assembled the slippery slope to "abuse" is EASY!!! Did you properly torque things, did you miss something they wouldn't have?
If you have ever been mislead or abused by Spyderco SPEAK NOW. I've seen them buy back whiners blades in the UK because of stupid things. They went the extra mile because it's the right thing to do and they still operate like a small family company it seems.
Lastly, the next person who mentions an attorney should get sued for frustration. Better yet let's hope they boycott one thing: The Internet.
It would be nice to curb this headache for a few days.
The General wrote:...Knowing what Spyderco are like, if there is evidence that a knife has been taken to bits but no damage was caused by this and the damage to the knife or reason for return is unrelated I would expect this to be held in the owners favour...
I think it is pretty clear here:
TazKristi wrote:1st - Disassembling a Spyderco voids the warranty. Period. ... It does not matter if you don't break anything when you do it. If we can tell that a knife has been disassembled (whether it's a FrankenSpyder or not) the warranty is technically void.
OK, I read this, because I love discussion on corporate policy, risk mitigation, marketing. I own Spyderco knives. I use them. I abuse them. I mod them. I've broken some. Here's the deal:
1) I take FULL responsibility for any knife I own. I mod it and strip a screw, too bad for me. I drop in on the tip and break off half an inch, too bad for me. I don't return them for warranty work. I will fix it or toss it.
2) These are knives, usually sub $150. If you screw it up, you aren't really out that much. If that is a lot of money to you (and that's a possibility) then treat it very carefully.
3) How many REAL warranty returns are there? REAL manufacturer defects? Not uneven grinds (sharpen it yourself) or 2mm off centered blade (deal with it) or cosmetic irregularities in CF, FRN, inside the knife where you can't see it (again, deal with it)... but REAL failures because of a manufacturer's defect? Not many. And abuse need not apply - you smack your knife full force handle first against a log, that's not regular use. Think about it for a while. How many REAL warranty issues have you had, heard about or seen? Many years ago I broke a Delica blade under regular use. Sent it in, with a polite explanation, got one back in a week or so, and with an improvement in the serration pattern. Once, happened to me ONCE.
3) If you worry about warranty, and money is tight, rinse your knife, scrub it, soak it and relube it. Anything will come out of a pivot - mud, sand, blood, whatever - with a good soak and scrub. That's what I usually do, but then again, I don't care about the warranty, and I trust my skills, so a takedown in not out of the question.
I didn't really want to jump in, but I did. I comes down to a few simple things - do you think that taking your knife apart caused a "defect in workmanship?" That is preposterous. If warranty is more important that enjoying the use of the knife, don't take it apart. And, in the extremely unlikely event of a defect in workmanship, be polite, courteous, and I am certain that Spyderco will take care of you with the white glove treatment.
I think that many folks, on this forum, not on this forum, out in the real world, look for things to go wrong. In some cases, many folks carry Spydercos but barely use them, other than for threads and envelopes. In general (and yes, I am prejudging here) it is that kind of person that will tinker, take apart, complain about the warranty of purely theoretical grounds. Just look at forum pics of knives - pristine, shiny, near new. On the other end of the scale is the person who uses the knife - not abuses - put puts it through mud and grit, who carves hinge recesses with a knife because he or she forgot a chisel, who cuts shingle, or strips wire, who puts it away dirty because he or she doesn't have the time to baby the knife right away. I am not judging either camp (but you can tell which one I am in). It's your knife, do what you will. BUT, don't expect unreasonable services, warranties or promises. Take responsibility, be reasonable and logical, everything will fall into place.
PS - If you can't fight the urge to take it apart, find a fully pinned model!
What is wrong with "good operating condition"? I have been able to flush any grit out with hot soapy water in the past...even the grit from cutting shingles.
Why do most people these days feel they are Entitled ? :confused: I should be able to do what I want when I want for whatever reason.I should be able to drive 30 mph over the speed limit without getting a ticket. I should be able to come in to work 10 minutes late every day and not get fired.I should be able to drive my car 100,000 miles without ever changing the oil and it be covered by warranty right? I should never have to go to work, and the government should send me a pay check.I should be able to cross international borders when I want without a passport.Everything should just fall in to my lap without effort.I shouldn't have to follow any rules.........well just because I don't want to. I want more of me and I, and screw everyone else.
The warranty is written in a plain easily understood manner.Don't try to read anything between the lines because it is simply not there.
Thanks, Jim
V8R
Opinions are like belly buttons most people have one:p
