A few questions about the Millie & Para

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ccf
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A few questions about the Millie & Para

Postby ccf » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:43 pm

I believe the saber ground Endura & Delica are considered more robust than the FFG versions. At least theoretically speaking.

This makes me wonder if the Millie & Para would be better off with a saber grind since they're basically considered hard use knives. No doubt the FFG is a better slicer, though. However, I'd think the saber grind could take more twisting, torque, & "abuse". Does anybody have an opinion on this?

BTW, I don't have the specs in front of me, but does the Millie & Para have a thicker blade than the Endura & Delica? I'm assuming it does, so would that make a big difference?

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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:48 pm

my mouth is zipped. :D

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Postby ccf » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:49 pm

chuck_roxas45 wrote:my mouth is zipped. :D
Did I ask a dumb question? :)

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chuck_roxas45
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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Mon Jul 26, 2010 10:55 pm

"Did I ask a dumb question?"

Not at all. :D


PM sent.

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Postby ccf » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:03 pm

chuck_roxas45 wrote:PM sent.
replied

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Postby carrot » Mon Jul 26, 2010 11:46 pm

It is true that sabre grind is considered stronger than FFG. However, one must also consider that the Military and Para are designed to be the most robust and reliable slicers that Spyderco offers for use in harsh environments. Spyderco does not consider prying to be a part of a knife's duties and so the Military and Para truly reflect that -- these knives will cut through whatever needs to be cut, quickly and efficiently and under all sorts of adverse conditions that may affect other knives' grip, lockup, or other usability. When you consider them in that light they truly shine as remarkably well designed and made folders. If I needed a knife I could rely on to cut my way out of hairy situations no matter what, one of these two would be jammed in my pocket without a second thought.
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Scottie3000
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Postby Scottie3000 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:03 am

You are correct that the Millie and Para have thicker blades. Millie is 4mm, Para is 4mm, the Para 2 is 3.5mm, the Endura is 3mm, and the Delica is 2.5mm.
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Postby yablanowitz » Tue Jul 27, 2010 11:52 am

The diameter of the screw that holds the handle together at the pivot is 0.085". That means the cross sectional area of the screw is 0.0057 square inches. If the tensile strength of the alloy used in the screw is 30,000 pounds per square inch, the pivot screw can stand 171 pounds of force. That is assuming the screw is loose enough to have no pre-load on it, which is seldom the case. When you start twisting or prying, the torque you apply tries to force the handle sides apart, applying addition tensile load to the screws. Because of the leverage involved in the various parts, the amount of torque you apply will be multiplied several times. It doesn't take a gorilla to apply a couple hundred pounds of force to the pivot screw that way.

If you want to twist and pry, stick with a full-tang fixed blade.
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Postby The Deacon » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:23 pm

It's not just the Military and Para. I could have missed one, but I can't think of a single 4mm bladed folder Spyderco has ever built with a flat saber grind. The few that weren't full flat were hollow saber. Perhaps they don't consider the added weight worth what would probably be a modest gain, at best, in toughness.
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Postby HellHound » Tue Jul 27, 2010 12:42 pm

Scottie3000 wrote:You are correct that the Millie and Para have thicker blades. Millie is 4mm, Para is 4mm, the Para 2 is 3.5mm, the Endura is 3mm, and the Delica is 2.5mm.
Even though the Millie has 4mm stock thickness it has a very thin,week tip, the e4 maintains the 3mm thickness almost to the tip.So imho carry the military for sd (slashing doucheBags! :D ) and the endura for utility, good combo. ;)
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Postby Scottie3000 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 3:11 pm

HellHound wrote:Even though the Millie has 4mm stock thickness it has a very thin,week tip, the e4 maintains the 3mm thickness almost to the tip.So imho carry the military for sd (slashing doucheBags! :D ) and the endura for utility, good combo. ;)
I agree that the Millie tip is thin, but don't discount its ability to work. There have been very very few knife duties that I wouldn't subject the Millie to. As an option, you might like to try carrying a multi-tool to compliment the Millie. With the two you have most all you bases covered. The Millie for knife duties, and the mulit-tool for all the prying, screwdriver, and plier work.

Just a thought.
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Postby ccf » Tue Jul 27, 2010 5:15 pm

This is such a good forum. I'm learning a lot.

BTW, I'm the OP & believe me, I didn't ask this question suggesting the Millie & Para had the wrong blade on it. I only asked because I was curious about the FFG, which theoretically, would be a less robust blade on what is basically considered a hard use folder. However, the FFG is a better slicer, & with the increased width of the blade (compared to the Endura & Delica), it helps make up for it not being a saber grind.

Plus, like the poster before me said (& I wholeheartedly agree), a multi-tool & the Millie or Para is an excellent combo for all but the most difficult of chores, & that's where a fixed blade would come in.

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Postby kawr » Tue Jul 27, 2010 6:31 pm

I dont like saber grinds. It defeats the purpose of a knife which is to cut things up. Saber grinds belong on swords and choppers. I do think a well done hollow grind would be pretty good on the millie and para though since overall cutting ability would be almost as good while adding tip and spine strength.

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:30 pm

kawr wrote:I dont like saber grinds. It defeats the purpose of a knife which is to cut things up. Saber grinds belong on swords and choppers. I do think a well done hollow grind would be pretty good on the millie and para though since overall cutting ability would be almost as good while adding tip and spine strength.
Hhhm, i'll be all over that.

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Postby telemeister » Tue Jul 27, 2010 7:57 pm

From my experience I would much rather have the Millie as an FFG. I use mine in rescue and emergency type of work and the Millie has never let me down. I used to use an Endura when I first started, but it is not even close to the Millie in terms of performance. In short, I wouldn't buy a Millie with a saber grind - in fact, would probably hesitate to buy even a hollow grind. As for toughness, I have belted my Millie around an awful lot and never had a problem.
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Postby ace » Tue Jul 27, 2010 10:57 pm

Put simply, if you are able to snap the FFG blad in 2 by applying sidays torque, you need a fixed lade with a minimum 3/16" thinck blade. You should never apply that much sidways torque to a folder.

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Postby chuck_roxas45 » Wed Jul 28, 2010 6:46 am

ace wrote:Put simply, if you are able to snap the FFG blad in 2 by applying sidays torque, you need a fixed lade with a minimum 3/16" thinck blade. You should never apply that much sidways torque to a folder.
I'd probably be better off with a crowbar but that doesn't mean I can lug one around all the time.


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