Blerv wrote:Great points and duly noted. :)
That last part was more of a personal note and opinion. I have a Manix2 and Superhawk and they are great just classified differently. Everything has a place.
My main issue really is the spine whack because it doesn't accurately translate to anything you would do with a knife. I don't fight tables with the spine of my knife in daily life nor could generate those forces in any practical situation (even combatives). If he did all that work and then attached it to a pole and started stabbing trees to make it fail...that would make more sense.
The real question is if this was a fluke product, bogus test or a design flaw. That's up to Spyderco to consider and act on.
2cha wrote:Gotta say that I found the test interesting and the results surprising. The tip break and side wobble, isn't particularly surprising, but the lock failures were.
I note that the lock "failure" wasn't a failure in the traditional sense of lock "breakage." This leads me to believe that the way the test is conducted causes the bearing to "bounce" for lack of a better word, out of locking position. As others have pointed out, this is not a failure that would put one's fingers at risk. I think a fairer test of the Manix 2 would be the "pole stab test" where the knife is affixed to the end of a pole, and repeatedly stabbed into something hard.
I don't think this would be a problem where the angle of stabbing forces the blade back toward the spine, but I now wonder if the force was in the opposite direction--like if you stabbed with the knife edge up--would the lock hold, or could it "bounce" out?
That's my take on it. It's a folder, not a fixed blade. Regardless of what knife handled this "test" better, give me ANY folder on Earth and i'll break it with the right amount of "testing". Regardless of whether it's described as a hard use knife, it's still only hard use as per what you should reasonably do with a folding knife, and the tasks he used the knife for are better suited for a machete or ax. I'm not sticking up for the brand here, i'm just calling it how i see it and i think what he's doing is asking a lot of a folder regardless of what the lock design is.jzmtl wrote:There's test and there's beat the **** out of something, and he ain't testing the knife.
Personally i don't see the point of testing it in the first place. Where is it written that a locking blade is supposed to convert to a fixed blade when locked? I think if anything it's just to prevent the blade from closing unless you want it closed...as opposed to a slipit type knife that if you had to stab into something could close on your hand. He did plenty of stabbing into the log and the lock didn't fail and close on his hand even after failing the spine whack text repeatedly. That to me says the lock did what it was supposed to do within reasonable usage. I think a solid lock is more about standing up against blade play than failing to stay locked in such an unreasonable test.chuck_roxas45 wrote:fair enough, so what do you think will be a valid test for a folder's lock?
I agree. i watched the video and it just looks like he's abusing it and not doing any real testing. I don't really understand the point of the spine whack. how often are you going to hammer something with the back edge of your blade?jzmtl wrote:There's test and there's beat the **** out of something, and he ain't testing the knife.
Very good points :) I'd especially like to hear about any failures in normal edc use.markg wrote:Consider the power and problem of the internet. One person has a video where a knife lock fails and we all freak out. I have seen it happen with lots of other knives too.
But the power of the internet it is this.... There are quite a few Manix 2 knives out there being used. How many posts on forums do you read of a Manix failing under normal use or even extreme use? The key is to look for trends. For example I can find lots of issues from lots of people with Kershaw's Stud Lock.
I would like to get a lot more data before I draw any conclusions.
I don't understand the "over strike" test myself, would not my hand be where you are hitting in reality?
As for spine whacking... Depending on the knife, the test itself is abusive to the knife and will accelerate wear. Sort of like using the parking brake on your car to stop the car. Also spine whacks on hard surfaces creates a lot of vibration that can cause the one moving part to want to move. The reality is this, would you ever accidentally strike the back of the blade with this much force in a real world situation?
After watching this, I took my Manix 2, and spine whacked it a few times. Against soft surfaces and against hard ones. I cover the wood with cloth so as not to mar the wood or the knife too much. The knife held, and it passed enough for me to not worry about it. I have had liner locks and other locks fail with this test.
The Triad Lock Cold Steel uses is pretty interesting. I am considering getting a knife with the lock to try it out. It eliminates one of the weaknesses of the back lock, in that it adds a stop pin that takes the forces placed upon the blade. As tests show, it is a pretty stout lock.
Glad you asked.dc50 wrote:Very good points :) I'd especially like to hear about any failures in normal edc use.