Manix 2 lock fails hard-use test [VID] -- thoughts?

[VashHash]

well i'm back did some whine spacking of my own http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93B1mG1H1ck i did some before this video but i figured less talk more whack

[dc50]

I'm hoping Spyderco sees this. I'm expecting a new knife and a new index finger. :mad:

Ha ha I'm pretty sure your in for a new one, a new finger that is :p

Sometimes I wish knife affis weren't so anal.
Sal and company, bring out much anticipated knives, to have, "only if they had done this, or that, I'd be all over it".Man o man that must be frustrating.

[docwatson]

buy a fixed blade knife or a hatchet. In my opinion if people want to treat their knives like that go ahead, I don't, remember a folding knife is basically a blade that is broke in half already, at the hinge. :) Any way I own two Manix 2, and am quite happy with them. I carry my Manix 2, in case I have to defend myself i.e. cut someone, I don't use it to open packages or chop wood. But then I don't use my Colt Peacemker to tack up wanted posters either.

[jabba359]

well i'm back did some whine spacking of my own http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93B1mG1H1ck i did some before this video but i figured less talk more whack

Dude, I can tell that your video is fake. The sound of the manix hitting doesn't match the video. Stop spreading your fanboy lies. :p

Just kidding! :D Thanks for sharing. I can't help but wonder if the original video has a defective Manix 2 or if it was the looseness and bladeplay that allowed the blade to slip past the lock.

It's very hard to tell from such a small sample of only one of each knife. There are countless variables, such as knots in the wood, angle the knife may have hit the knots at, etc, etc. I don't think that he was trying to make Spyderco knives look bad (he seems to have quite a few and generally likes them), but just sharing the results of his limited test. While his lock failed, I don't think the lock of my Manix 2, if used in the same manner, would fail. Whatever the results, that Cold Steel Tri-Ad™ lock seems pretty cool.

[chuck_roxas45]

well i'm back did some whine spacking of my own http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93B1mG1H1ck i did some before this video but i figured less talk more whack

That's good for my peace of mind.

[P40_Warhawk]

well i'm back did some whine spacking of my own http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93B1mG1H1ck i did some before this video but i figured less talk more whack

Your a whacking maniac!! :eek:

[LorenzoL]

I think the BBL and the CBBL are potentially the strongest lock designs around. However, anybody who has handled a Manix 2 will know that it is not an overbuilt folder, far from it. The blade is only 3 mm thick, the liners are extremely thin, the pivot is small and the way everything is held together is a little on the light side (for example, that lanyard tubing acting as a stand-off). The result is a very nice, pocketable knife, but not a "tank". And it also costs $70-$80, so probably one should take all those facts into consideration before judging the Manix 2.

[TrojanDonkey]

That's my take on it. It's a folder, not a fixed blade. Regardless of what knife handled this "test" better, give me ANY folder on Earth and i'll break it with the right amount of "testing". Regardless of whether it's described as a hard use knife, it's still only hard use as per what you should reasonably do with a folding knife, and the tasks he used the knife for are better suited for a machete or ax. I'm not sticking up for the brand here, i'm just calling it how i see it and i think what he's doing is asking a lot of a folder regardless of what the lock design is.

Bingo ! Sir, I concur. If you a buy a this (folder) when you really wanted a that (fixed blade woods/survival knife) don't be surprised when you are not happy.I own both fixed and folders.What I want to know regarding the Manix 2 vs Lawman is-Lets see which knife holds an edge better.Lets see which customers are happier after a year of daily use.Again Cold Steel designs tough knifes-I get it.But AUS 8 in their current incarnations is silly to me.Even if it is a slip joint or FRN Dragonfly (no offense Sal-love VG 10 and just got S30v Native) that isnt used often I want a better steel.Sharpening was fun when I was a teenager but when I got older I liked the better steels.

[Blerv]

I think the BBL and the CBBL are potentially the strongest lock designs around. However, anybody who has handled a Manix 2 will know that it is not an overbuilt folder, far from it. The blade is only 3 mm thick, the liners are extremely thin, the pivot is small and the way everything is held together is a little on the light side (for example, that lanyard tubing acting as a stand-off). The result is a very nice, pocketable knife, but not a "tank". And it also costs $70-$80, so probably one should take all those facts into consideration before judging the Manix 2.

3.5mm hg blade.

It's designed for strength not weight. It's a brute per ounce. Like all Spydies.

Make a 9 oz version and I wont buy it. They make tactical hawks for those jobs.

I definitely agree on he price topic.

[davibocce]

Seems like the pivot bushing system needs some more refinement :spyder: :confused:

This.

On my manix 2, even if there is no side-to-side play, I can definitely feel the blade is a bit loose when I try to move it to the side. And due to the bushing system, this is not adjustable. This makes the manix2 blade feels not as tight as say, the Endura's blade.

(edit: all these referring to when the blades are locked open)

[Fred Sanford]

Every now and then this happens with every knife.

They were harsh tests yes.

I have seen every lock fail with the exception of the compression lock.

I have seen videos where Axis locks fail, liner locks, frame locks, back locks etc.

I have personally had a Benchmade TSEK that had a failing Axis lock. Benchmade made it right. I've had failing liner locks and back locks from both Kershaw and Spyderco.

As crazy as it sounds, some of the best back locks made I have seen and actually had the chance to use were Cold Steel. People can mock them but they make a good back lock.

Heck I had a Salt I about 3 months ago that would close with pressure from my hand. It was brand new out of the box. I decided to take it apart and look at it and mess around with stuff instead of sending it in.

This video doesn't concern me or make me think that every Manix 2 is like this. Be around knives long enough and you'll see them fail now and again....like anything else.

[The General]

Looking at that video from VashHash (thanks for that mate) I got the chance to see the Manix2 in a bit more detail.

Not a knife I am really interested in to be honest as I have the full sized Manix lockback and that is a TANK. I don't need another Manix!

As has been said, any knife can fail. I had a Spyderco Starmate and the liner lock was really bad. It would fold with the slightest tap of the spine. I sent it back to Spyderco after speaking to Sal and I was informed the knife had been used hard and was no longer serviceable.

This was from the warranty dept. Not Sal.

So I contacted them and had a new S30V Military as a replacement.

Now this Starmate was a drawer queen, it had no hard use from me, the blade was mint. Yet I got a generic letter stating that it had been used hard. Was I offended? Yes, quite a lot. However, it was a generic letter and I shrugged it off and accepted that some knives just fail. If its made by man, it will fail at some point.

This was a long time ago and I miss that Starmate. Really nice knife.

My point being I am a Spyderholic, I love the brand, I love the people that run the company, I love the collectors and fellow enthusiasts. However, I am not blinkered and the time a product fails and fails honestly I will be the first to agree something is wrong.

This test is not in itself enough to justify a panic guys. I would ask the tester to return the knife to Spyderco and let them test it and find out what went wrong. It might well have been a lemon like my Starmate. I have owned over 50 Spyderco knives, so one being a lemon out of 50 is not bad odds.

I can live with that.

Just make sure you all test your knife, regardless of the brand. A firm yet not abusive spine whack on a book ought to be a standard test for any knife. I certainly do this to all my knives.

Guess what? My UKPK failed this test... :D Oh the horror! :rolleyes:

[The General]

Double tap, sorry.

[MountainManJim]

Hey,

A little tip for those using and abusing knives. If the knife develops some side to side play, your pivot screw has loosened and you need to tighten, now. That’s why it’s a screw so, you can tighten it. Another thing to understand, screws that are not fully torque (and even those that are) can and will loosen with cyclical loading, that’s life in the physical world. Note, you can never tight a pivot screw to full torque ‘cause then it ain’t a pivot anymore.

My guess this yahoo had the pivot loosen so much that the ball in the lock was able to roll off the blade. God, I hate badly performed tests.

Jim

[Ben_1323]

After watching both the first video and VashHash's video, I think there's two possible explanations for the failure.

1) The pivot screw wasn't tight which contributed to the lock failure.

2) The knife is a lemon. VashHash's test was rougher on the spine than the first test, and his held up fine. Plus, if I'm remember right, VashHash's knife has been through other torture as well (stabbing a car door?). No reason for a brand new knife to fail like that, other than a defect.

[davibocce]

I think the BBL and the CBBL are potentially the strongest lock designs around. However, anybody who has handled a Manix 2 will know that it is not an overbuilt folder, far from it. The blade is only 3 mm thick, the liners are extremely thin, the pivot is small and the way everything is held together is a little on the light side (for example, that lanyard tubing acting as a stand-off). The result is a very nice, pocketable knife, but not a "tank". And it also costs $70-$80, so probably one should take all those facts into consideration before judging the Manix 2.

I love my Manix 2 and have been very happy with it. But I would agree with what you said about the lanyard tube. Everyone says Manix2 is a tank - it sure feels like one in hand. But the second half of the handle is only held together by the "friction fit" lanyard hole. I would be concerned about the sturdiness in that area especially if I have to take the knife apart (for cleaning, filing down the pivot a little :eek: etc) - is the lanyard tube going to still hold tight after reassembly? I have seen people say it became loose afterward ... or on a brand new Manix 2 some dude received.

It would be a real tank if there is one more screw on the handle near the lanyard hole, giving it a complete secure treatment. You know it's not like there are too many screws already on that handle ... people seem fine with the Endura handle where I counted 5 screws not including the 3 clip mounting ones :rolleyes: I wish the future larger Manix 2 would have that one more screw.

[jylong_away]

I love my Manix 2 and have been very happy with it. But I would agree with what you said about the lanyard tube. Everyone says Manix2 is a tank - it sure feels like one in hand. But the second half of the handle is only held together by the "friction fit" lanyard hole. I would be concerned about the sturdiness in that area especially if I have to take the knife apart (for cleaning, filing down the pivot a little :eek: etc) - is the lanyard tube going to still hold tight after reassembly? I have seen people say it became loose afterward ... or on a brand new Manix 2 some dude received.

It would be a real tank if there is one more screw on the handle near the lanyard hole, giving it a complete secure treatment. You know it's not like there are too many screws already on that handle ... people seem fine with the Endura handle where I counted 5 screws not including the 3 clip mounting ones :rolleyes: I wish the future larger Manix 2 would have that one more screw.

A Chicago screw through the lanyard hole fixes that! :)

[davibocce]

A Chicago screw through the lanyard hole fixes that! :)

That's a very good idea! Will keep it in mind should I ever loosen up my M2 :)

[SaturnNyne]

I own several Manix 2 variants, including; S90V CF, CTS-XHP, and the 154CM. My issue is the ball lock not traveling fully into position. In virtually all the Manix 2s I own the ball lock seems to semi engage. What I mean is this... I do get a tight lock up, however, the ball only travels a very short distance into the blade tang to get into locking position. When I turn the knife spine side down and look through the knife to see how far the ball has traveled I always find that I can see the ball, meaning it does not travel very far at all into locking position.

My thought is simple... if the ball moved further into the space between the blade slot and the "top piece of steel" thus sandwiching the ball further in... the lockup would be stronger and much more reliable.

This is a very interesting point, and I think very important! I find it so hard to believe that a properly functioning ball lock could fail like this because of my experience with my own Manix: When engaged, the ball travels all the way past the end of the tang and is not visible from directly below. The bearing is tightly sandwiched between tang and backspacer, and when force is applied, the rotating of the blade only causes the rear edge of the tang to try to swing around back and hug it tighter. As you pointed out, this makes for an extremely strong lockup, and I would be shocked if an undamaged M2 with the same quality of lockup as mine failed any whack test that didn't permanently damage the knife as well.

However, if the ball only partially engaged and was sitting near the edge of the tang instead of entirely on it, I would somewhat expect the lock to fail a whack test exactly like in that video. If some undetermined number of M2s engage incompletely in the way you describe on yours, I would guess that this is the prime suspect in this instance. Damage or loosening could have contributed in some way, but with this we've identified a known issue in some of them that absolutely could play a part in this kind of failure.

Since Sal has said that the knife itself would self-destruct before the lock truly failed, I must assume that what I describe on mine is the way it's intended to be, and the shallower engagement on some is a defect, though a fairly minor one that is unlikely to cause any problem in normal use. (In other words, I wouldn't worry too much about your partial engagement unless the ball is so poorly seated that it might slip off under reasonable use.)

I tried recording a quick video to give an idea of how far the ball engages on mine. It's not as clear as I'd like, but I think it shows that the ball is completely engaged within the tang and is completely hidden even though I was shooting from a slightly rearward angle (meaning from the rear, looking up toward the back of the tang).
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BNiyIsMRK_4

No reason for a brand new knife to fail like that, other than a defect.

I agree. I feel very confident that this failure was caused by a defect in that particular knife, either from the factory or introduced during the testing.

well i'm back did some whine spacking of my own http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93B1mG1H1ck i did some before this video but i figured less talk more whack

Thank you for doing this! Your results do not surprise me at all, this is exactly what I would expect of any M2 that locks up as solidly as my own appears to. The fact that the knife shouldn't be used in this way and probably never will be in real life is irrelevant; this is a lock that—when functioning at its best—absolutely should be able to withstand this kind of abuse.


(And I agree about the rear of the handle not being as sturdily assembled as it could and maybe should be. It hasn't been a problem for me, but I know it has for others.)

[jylong_away]

With regards to the ball lock not fully engaging, one option is to loosen the screws that hold the backspacer in place. Then open and close the blade a couple of times, and retighten while the blade is in the open(locked) position.

This seems to 'calibrate' the contact between the ball and the spacer, and allow the ball to lock further forward.