Manix 2 lock fails hard-use test [VID] -- thoughts?

[springnr]

Manged to cause side play in knife...

Hmmm, fails spine whack.

Did no one else cringe when the stabbing test continued?

[araneae]

I picked up some mango passion fruit jam that I can't wait to try.

[Seven]

Lol @ the dead salmon carcass slap test...

[clovisc]

Franco -- I admit to being a bit sarcastic in my post... although "salmon overstrike" can be some serious stuff!

[v8r]

I'm was soutterly surprised by the Manix 2 failing during the course of these completely reasonable, realistic tests that I decided to test out a few other items of purported "high quality" and "high durability."

First, I tested my Sage VT2 fly rod by slapping it against tree trunks, scraping at the finish with hooks, hitting it with a dead salmon carcass, and finally, slamming it in my car door. The purpose was to simulate extreme angling accidents, as this is intended to be a pretty extreme rod. Now it is in handfuls of itty bitty pieces. What a horrible product, right? "FAIL!!!!"

After that, I decided to put my Marlin 1895GS in .45-70 to the test by scraping it across rocks for a couple hours, shooting 12 gauge slugs at it, and sticking it into the fire at the local blacksmith's shop and hammering away at the metal. The result? "Fail... fail... fail."

Finally, I took my Arcteryx Gamma jacket, and attempted to light it on fire. I am sad to report that I didn't even get the chance to progress from this test to the "katana test" I had planned. Ever try to chop cinders? "Fail."

In conclusion, I am shocked and appalled by some of the junk that is out there, selling for extreme prices! Just imagine what would happen if a pack of fire-breathing ninjas caught me while fishing, slammed me in a car door, dragged me across an Afghan mountainside for a couple days, and threw me into Mt. Doom! I'd never survive!

Thats funny right there! Bahahaha :D :p

[v8r]

As I recall when I watched the video the tester was holding the knife with his finger tips at the very end of the handle......Would this act as a longer lever? If holding the knife correctly in a Icepick or forward grip(Not sure of terminology) There is no way mine will completely close on my hand. I imagine in a SD Situation that most humans are not nearly as hard as a piece of wood. I don't know if any of my observations have been discussed or noticed by others, but I have used my Manix II hard including boring holes with the tip to get screws started and cutting shingles with it(Yes it was dull when I finished).I think this qualifies as "real world testing" ? Just my opinion ,but I know it is a safe design that works well for the application I use it for.I trust Sal and Spyderco will make any changes to the design if needed....with that said I'm out. This dead horse has been beaten to death, as a matter of fact it is just a greasy spot where a dead horse used to be. :D

[SaturnNyne]

I picked up some mango passion fruit jam that I can't wait to try.

I can't even remember what either of those taste like, and yet that sounds really delicious right now!

I think the last time we had this discussion I was in a late night apple sauce on toast kick. Since then, I've gotten some apple butter, which is a pretty interesting change of pace. It's not quite as good as straight apple sauce, but it can be used more like a jam and combined with peanut butter for an unusual PBJ.

[unit]

I can't even remember what either of those taste like, and yet that sounds really delicious right now!

I think the last time we had this discussion I was in a late night apple sauce on toast kick. Since then, I've gotten some apple butter, which is a pretty interesting change of pace. It's not quite as good as straight apple sauce, but it can be used more like a jam and combined with peanut butter for an unusual PBJ.

My son got some strawberry butter at the local farmers market. I recommend that! Good stuff. I spread it with a spoon though. A knife is just overkill. LOL

[rycen]

First not to take anything away from STR but I highly doubt he has a machine to test lock strength.

Unless I read something wrong I believe Eric's post eluded to the screws being a problem hence why there was so much blade play which led to the lock failure.

[The Deacon]

Unless I read something wrong I believe Eric's post eluded to the screws being a problem hence why there was so much blade play which led to the lock failure.

Glad to see I'm not the only one who read it that way Rycen.

The biggest "problem" with all of this is that, beyond there being absolutely no way to be certain that all the knives were subjected to the exact same forces, common sense alone tells you they could not be. If six cars are driven into a barrier at speeds between 4 and 6 mph and angles between 88º and 92º without damage and a seventh car is driven into that same barrier at 8mph at a 75º angle and sustains some, nothing of value has been proven regarding the relative strength of the cars. Meaningful comparison testing requires equal forces precisely applied and directed. Anything else is just beating stuff up for the fun of it. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's not presented as anything more than that.

[unit]

Glad to see I'm not the only one who read it that way Rycen.

The biggest "problem" with all of this is that, beyond there being absolutely no way to be certain that all the knives were subjected to the exact same forces, common sense alone tells you they could not be. If six cars are driven into a barrier at speeds between 4 and 6 mph and angles between 88º and 92º without damage and a seventh car is driven into that same barrier at 8mph at a 75º angle and sustains some, nothing of value has been proven regarding the relative strength of the cars. Meaningful comparison testing requires equal forces precisely applied and directed. Anything else is just beating stuff up for the fun of it. Nothing wrong with that, as long as it's not presented as anything more than that.

Yeah but I simply must have a car that can hit the wall doing 80 and emerge unscratched.

I get what you are saying. Just keep in mind that my joke is not too far from reality. Some people want the knife that Superman could not break (vorpal kryptonite with atom splitting capabilities).

[springnr]

Manged to cause side play in knife...

Hmmm, fails spine whack.

Did no one else cringe when the stabbing test continued?

Since no one replied that they too cringed....

Am I safe to assume that most here... including the guy doing the testing as he kept on stabbing the knife into wood after the spine whack fail.

Know the spine whack test is ---> whack.

[MountainManJim]

We now live in world where anyone with an internet connection and video camera can be expert on any subject of their choosing. Not too long ago we looked to people with training, education, skills, knowledge and/or experience to gain knowledge. It looks like we forgot about this.

This state of fairs is particular troubling to me when it comes to product reviews and especially testing. I wonder how long it will be before companies get their lawyers involved to protect themselves when they are wronged. It sad but I’m almost rooting for the lawyers.

I prefer to get information about products from reliable, expert sources; people who have the experience and technical knowledge of the products and, certainly, those people that know how to conduct a reasonable test of the products. I like to see test results from folks like Consumer’s Union; I’d love to see them take on folder testing. I’m pretty confident in Spyderco’s test methods and their honesty in publishing some of their findings. It would be nice to see a more definitive response from Spyderco but, that should only come after the time needed to research any alleged issues is taken.

I fail to see the how the popular “whacking” test applies the real world. The loads and shocks from the whacking test are completely different how a knife is used; unless of course you think a knife is a hammer. In the real world, other than the whittling of 2x4s, probably the most extreme loading will be in a self defense situation where the knife is loaded up, down, sideways and twisted at pretty high loads but, not will a sharp whack or impact. From a material testing standpoint, these different loads are worlds apart and you design a product somewhat differently for the two situations. I personally prefer to see products designed for the real world.

As far as I can tell from my Manix 2, it is rock solid and shows no indication of that changing during my daily use (sometimes hard) or in the expected loads from a self defense application. I should point out that my knife is actually a factory second and it is still built solid. I even loosen all of screws and it still had a solid lock-up. I then remove one side of handle; still a solid lock-up, wow. I have put some very heavy loads on the lock and it doesn’t move a hair; unlike some of my lock backs and liner locks. So, my own testing on my knife has nullified for me any internet tests that I’ve seen.

Jim, P.E.

[Franco G]

As far as I can tell from my Manix 2, it is rock solid and shows no indication of that changing during my daily use (sometimes hard) or in the expected loads from a self defense application. I should point out that my knife is actually a factory second and it is still built solid. I even loosen all of screws and it still had a solid lock-up. I then remove one side of handle; still a solid lock-up, wow. I have put some very heavy loads on the lock and it doesn’t move a hair; unlike some of my lock backs and liner locks. So, my own testing on my knife has nullified for me any internet tests that I’ve seen.

Jim, P.E.

Thanx Jim, this is very encouraging - it still might be that the screws got loosened during a heavy abuse - that would be good news.


Franco

[Scottie3000]

Can someone explain the nylon part that Eric Glesser spoke about? The best I can understand is it is sort of like a locknut. The screw for the pivot screws into steel but has a nylon liner or extension to grip the screw to avoid it loosening. Is that correct or am I nowhere close? Perhaps some paint-fu?

[The Deacon]

Can someone explain the nylon part that Eric Glesser spoke about? The best I can understand is it is sort of like a locknut. The screw for the pivot screws into steel but has a nylon liner or extension to grip the screw to avoid it loosening. Is that correct or am I nowhere close? Perhaps some paint-fu?

I've seen screws that have a small nylon "button" inserted into a hole in its threads. When I was into RC flying, there were also nuts with a nylon insert. Small single cylinder engines hitting 10k rpm and better are one of the ultimate tests of vibration resistant hardware. I'm imagining something along one of those lines, but it could even be something as simple as a "thread dope" type coating.

[Franco G]

... although "salmon overstrike" can be some serious stuff!

I think the real issue here is fanatics for a certain brand can't accept that a failure took place on a knife they like, by a company they like and now they are on the defensive where if the knife had done well and another brand had failed that they didn't care about those same people would be praising the tests parameters. It is disappointing when something you like fails I agree but the real test is in how the lock behaved in the taps and that was not good. (STR in the thread on another forum)

Franco

[Franco G]

I picked up some mango passion fruit jam that I can't wait to try.

This is a point I was missing!

The venerable Manix2 with the strongest and most reliable lock is actually designed for cutting bread and puting a mango passion fruit jam on it!

But, still, be careful. If a mango passion fruit jam enters the Ball Bearing Cage it could lead to a jam. A CBBL jam.

With jam in cage (BBL cage) a knife would be certainly more tasteful.

Anyhow, the problem would be solved by adding more handle colors. A pink one for you.


Franco

[araneae]

My son got some strawberry butter at the local farmers market. I recommend that! Good stuff. I spread it with a spoon though. A knife is just overkill. LOL

I was unaware that strawberry butter existed. I have a new holy grail in fruit preserves.

[Seven]

Put some of that passion fruit jam on a sammich with some almond butter, one exotic pb & J.