Factory re-sharpening for ZDP Caly3?

[hoffmand]

I'm pretty sure I'm going to order a Caly3 CF/ZDP for my new EDC. I decided it was time for another Spyderco after I lost a SS Police many years ago. I considered the Tenacious, Delica FFG, and finally the Caly3 ZDP. Figured I'd save money by just jumping right to the Caly3 rather than working my way up to it :D

I've heard wonderful things about the knife and the great factory edge. It will be used for very light duty work so the factory edge should last a long time. Is there any reason I shouldn't spend the $5 once or twice a year for a "complimentary" factory sharpening? I could buy a sharpmarker and try to get as good of an edge or just use that money for years of factory re-sharpenings. Or am I looking at this the wrong way?

Dave

[yablanowitz]

Only you can say for certain. If it is the only knife you will own, it possibly makes sense to simply do without for a week or three a couple of times a year. Personally, I feel developing the skill to sharpen is something every knife owner should do, but I am quite possibly a minority in that respect. Probably comes from learning to sharpen freehand before Sal invented the SharpMaker.

P.S. Welcome to the forum!

[hoffmand]

It bothers me that I can't hand sharpen as well as I'd like. I've tried free-hand on DMT and whetstones with mixed luck. I can sharpen a plane or chisel to atom-splitting sharpening with a roller guide, but freehand... not so much. I figure ZDP is not the steel to learn on either. I've got a Byrd Finch and a Kershaw I could practice on for a while. Does anyone tilt regular whetstones to emulate the sharpmaker angles?

p.s. Thanks for the welcome.

[jzmtl]

Not in that way, but when I do reprofile I lean a diamond stone against sharpmaker rod so similar result.

[Bolster]

Hi Hoffmand. Your plan for factory resharpening is just fine. You picked a good steel for it. What you are giving up with that route, however, is:

1) The ability to steepen the edge to what ZDP can really handle, like 12-15 degrees per side (or less, if you're a slicing freak). Chances are the factory will give you 20 per side, which is way conservative for ZDP and in MHO doesn't do it justice. Why buy a Viper to drive to the grocery store.

2) You'll be more comfortable using your knife for more tasks if you know you can "fix" it if there's an accident.

While there are lots of old timers who love to brag about their ability to sharpen on a stone (without giving any evidence of their prowess), there's no way you or any other human can hold an angle like a jig can.

I am a huge fan of jigs (and a fan of fences on tablesaws, and of bearing guides for routers, laser levels, laser sights, GPS, and all those other devices that help remove human error from the equation). I'd recommend you get a Lansky for grinding your back bevel, and then use a Sharpmaker to set your edge. That way touchups are simple and easy on the Sharpmaker, but the Lansky will allow you to set the backbevel with relative ease (at least compared to the Sharpmaker, which is NOT the ideal sharpener for a backbevel...it just takes too long.)

So, like Yab, I'd recommend you get the Caly *and* get comfortable with a sharpening methodology of your choice. You have my 2 cents and you're certain to get a lot more opinions.

[ChrisR]

Also, don't forget that you can prolong the life of your edge by stropping after use - and it's much easier to do than sharpening. I too am pretty 50/50 when it comes to sharpening but I strop my EDC knives every week or at least after I have been using it for cutting harder substances. This puts a nice mirror finish on the edge and keeps it scary sharp for longer :) This means that you only need to go back to whetstones or the Sharpmaker when you have accidentally chipped or rolled the edge.

[Blerv]

For the general public I would say that's the most practical way to keep a blade sharp if you don't mind the wait.

The ZDP Caly comes freaky sharp out of the box and holds the edge a VERY long time.

[ChapmanPreferred]

I think it is better to learn to sharpen your own knives. I think ZDP would be a great steel to learn sharpening maintenance. I find it responds better to lighter sharpening strokes and would help you learn muscle memory on a Sharpmaker. Plus then you can also sharpen the other two knives you referenced above and any kitchen knives you may use.

[The Deacon]

I'd agree that knowing how to sharpen is an excellent skill to possess and vital one for those interested in "maximum performance". However, for the average owner who is not a knife enthusiast, the only real disadvantages to factory sharpening are that you're without the knife for at least a couple weeks each time and that there is always some risk, however slight, a knife will be lost in the mail.

[bh49]

I could buy a sharpmarker and try to get as good of an edge or just use that money for years of factory re-sharpenings. Or am I looking at this the wrong way?

Dave

Dave,
I agree with previous posters. It is nice to develop sharpening skills. I bought my sharpmaker more than four years ago and these are the best $50, which I spent. There are more than one knife in your household, which need to be sharpen and for some reasons knives are multiplying, even kitchen knives.

I'd recommend you get a Lansky for grinding your back bevel, and then use a Sharpmaker to set your edge.

For some reasons I thought that Lansky can not grind any angles sharper than 17 degrees per side

http://www.lanskysharpeners.com/LKDMD.php

Are any trick, which I am not aware?

[Jazz]

You'll be happier with yourself if you learn how to sharpen. Just practice on an old knife - kitchen knives, or whatever. It definately takes practice, but it'll be worth it. After years of working with knives in kitchens, I can easily put an edge on a knife with the right stone - no bragging, just practice and necessity. Also, I always use a steel on all my knives, kitchen and pocket, in a backwards stropping motion and the edges last way longer. My chef knife at work sees use every day and I think it's been about a year since I brought it to a stone - all because of using a steel properly (and it's a good knife).

- best wishes, Jazz.

P.S. Welcome to the forum and, the Caly 3 CF ZDP 189 is and excellent knife that'll just melt into your hand. :)

[cougar337]

I was told at the SFO to never let ZDP ever get dull because it is so hard to resharpen.

I bought myself a leather strop on a piece of wood and added green rubbing compound to the leather. I run the ZDP over the strop often and the ZDP stays super sharp for a long time, I have never had to take my Caly3 ZDP to an actual sharpening stone and I carry it every day for over 2 years


I bought mine from "mr2blue' on Bladeforums http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... ght=strops



I also was directed to some helpful how-to videos on YouTube but I cannot seem to locate the one I watched but there are many out there that shows you how to apply the compound (just rub it on the strop like a crayon) and techniques on how to run the blade over the strop. It is all very easy and your ZDP will be razor sharp and hold that edge for a long time and you will never have to worry about sharpening stones

[hoffmand]

"Average owner", "General Public", "Maximum Performance" :eek: Now you've found the way to motivate me :p

I have smooth and rough strops and green rouge from Lee Valley so I'll try the weekly maintenance with that. So long as I know I have the factory sharpening there to rescue me if I can't find the secret recipe for hand sharpening I'll be more likely to attempt it on this knife.

Someone gave me a Smith's clamp-on setup which looks similar to the Lansky. I might be able to use that for back bevels. Will the standard rods that come with the Sharpmaker be sufficient to bring out the most in ZDP?

Dave

[bh49]

Someone gave me a Smith's clamp-on setup which looks similar to the Lansky. I might be able to use that for back bevels. Dave

To the best of my knowledge Smith's settings are 20 and 25 degrees. These angles are too obtuse for back bevel of the blade with ZDP189. Better use sharpmaker @ 15 degrees.

[dj moonbat]

Alternately, you could get something that has a Wharncliffe blade. Unlike the Caly3, the edge is just a intersection of two planes, rather than a continuously variable curve comprising nearly infinite planes. They behave MUCH more like you get with chisel/plane blades.

I've always been a bad knife sharpener, but my Urban Orange is pretty much cake, because there's no curve to the edge.

[hoffmand]

To the best of my knowledge Smith's settings are 20 and 25 degrees. These angles are too obtuse for back bevel of the blade with ZDP189. Better use sharpmaker @ 15 degrees.

Yup, I just looked it up and you're right. Hopefully I won't have to sharp it so often that I have to worry about a back bevel or thinning the blade.

Ok, I'm sold. Is Cutlery Shoppe a respected place to buy the Caly3 from? They have the best price I can find. Amazon is actually a few bucks cheaper but I'd rather support a knife vendor.

Dave

[gbelleh]

I got my Caly 3 from krknives.com. Good service and very good price. Cutleryshoppe is great too.

[Bolster]

For some reasons I thought that Lansky can not grind any angles sharper than 17 degrees per side
Are any trick, which I am not aware?

Yes, actually! If you trig the angles (instead of relying on the stamped on angle numbers) you will find if you grasp the blade in the jig by its spine, that the edge is much further out there, meaning that the angles are much steeper than the lansky "angle guide" suggests they are.

So physically measure distances and use the pythagorean theorem to find out what the angles really are. I use this website to trig my angles, and I often get 12 degree per side angles out of my Lansky, on relatively small knives such as Persian and Caly and Stretch.

http://www.1728.com/pythgorn.htm

To the best of my knowledge Smith's settings are 20 and 25 degrees. These angles are too obtuse for back bevel of the blade with ZDP189. Better use sharpmaker @ 15 degrees.

Trig it out...I'll bet you dollars to doughnuts that the same applies to the Smith, although I can't say for sure because I don't know how the Smith holds the knife. But if you can use it to hold the spine of the blade, then those angles are probably much steeper than advertised. If the blade has any depth at all, like leaf-shaped blades do, your angles are very likely much steeper. Do the measurements and the math to find out for certain.

[hoffmand]

Ok, Caly3 is on its way from Cutlery Shoppe. Thanks for the help!

Dave

[marcus1]

I've got the Caly3 for an EDC blade and love it... came razor sharp out of the box (tested it on my arm :)
As for learning to sharpen; it really isn't that hard. I practiced on my wifes kitchen knives, which were in dire need of sharpening so figured I couldn't make them worse. After about the 5th knife through Sal's sharpmaker following his DVD method I was able to take that knife and slice paper the same way Sal did in the video... what a great feeling that is :)

So really, get the Caly3 and a Sharpmaker (or something else if you like) and keep it sharp your self. With all the other things it can sharpen, its well worth it.

If you find yourself needing to reshape/backbevel a blade, get a set of Diamond stones for the Sharpmaker... makes it really quick to do (at least on plain steel, haven't tried with ZDP or my V-10 blades yet).

Now I just need to learn how/when/etc to strop...