S30V vs. ZDP 189

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
User avatar
dj moonbat
Member
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Postby dj moonbat » Sun Sep 19, 2010 8:12 am

dbcad wrote:Life is too short for online squabbles.

I'm thinking about a nice thick reuben, grilled on both sides with homemade russian dressing mingled with the pastrami, sauerkraut, and swiss cheese into one delicious gooey mess. It's best not to do this everyday :) I love a good sandwich :D

Charlie
You know what I hate? When some clown substitutes cole slaw for sauerkraut in a reuben. It really should be the Eleventh Commandment that You Shalt Not Use Cole Slaw in a Sandwich, unless it's BBQ. God, I love reubens.

User avatar
The Deacon
Member
Posts: 25040
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Location: Upstate SC, USA
Contact:

Postby The Deacon » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:02 am

dj moonbat wrote:You know what I hate? When some clown substitutes cole slaw for sauerkraut in a reuben. It really should be the Eleventh Commandment that You Shalt Not Use Cole Slaw in a Sandwich, unless it's BBQ. God, I love reubens.
Glad you made that exception. Had a totally awesome sandwich for dinner last night - homemade BBQ'd pulled pork sandwich with coleslaw on a Kaiser roll. :D Coleslaw can work on a steak sandwich too. In my book, thinly sliced london broil and coleslaw is a **** fine combo. Agree that subbing it for sauerkraut on a reuben borders on the sacrilegious, at the very least, and may even be grounds for man card revocation.
Paul
My Personal Website ---- Beginners Guide to Spyderco Collecting ---- Spydiewiki
Deplorable :p
WTC # 1458 - 1504 - 1508 - Never Forget, Never Forgive!

User avatar
Fred Sanford
Member
Posts: 5682
Joined: Fri Jun 02, 2006 12:41 pm
Location: Ohio, USA

Postby Fred Sanford » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:19 am

Two nights ago I had a really excellent Crunchy peanut butter and blueberry jam sandwich. Man was that good. The blueberry jam came from a local produce farm.

Personally I like CPM-S30V better than ZDP-189. Not for any special scientific or metallurgical reason. Simply because it makes me happy. It cuts like mad and sharpens easy. It holds an edge longer than most steels and it's tough. CPM-S30V has been my favorite steel for about 3 years. VG-10 is my second favorite.
“I'm callin' you ugly. I could stick yo face in some dough and make some gorilla cookies.” - Fred Sanford

User avatar
dj moonbat
Member
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Postby dj moonbat » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:37 am

The Deacon wrote:In my book, thinly sliced london broil and coleslaw is a **** fine combo.
Huh. See, this is how commandments start getting watered down. It all starts with the coveting...

The General
Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am

Postby The General » Sun Sep 19, 2010 6:34 pm

Wow I got told to learn how to sharpen.

Classic.

You really need to find out more about who you insult next time. :rolleyes: :D

Oh and this comment is class "I can sharpen any steel in same time and see no difference"

So all steels have the same wear resistance then? Or it takes you hours to sharpen any blade as you are so poor at it? Please explain.
My real name is Wayne :D

User avatar
THG
Member
Posts: 923
Joined: Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:55 pm

Postby THG » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:17 pm

SaturnNyne wrote:But, zdp is a "higher cost" steel to me because it costs me a lot more time and physical effort. Higher cost is fine if the return is added benefit, but for some reason I've never gotten notably better edge retention out of zdp. It's just another better-than-decent steel I use, with some different properties from some of the others. It takes a good enough edge (but I have trouble getting a really great edge due to my sharpening limitations :( ), usually holds it reasonably well (but not better by enough to interest me, and maybe not always), and then requires a very noticeable amount of extra work to sharpen.

S30, on the other hand, seems to be a steel I get along with better than any other. I can put a good edge on it very easily, it cuts well, it doesn't frustrate me or consume excessive amounts of maintenance time, and it seems to hold its edge as well or better than anything else I use. I don't know why zdp falls short for me in my experiences with it, but it does, and my opinion on it is based on that experience.
Same experience here, except for me, as you may have heard me report in other threads, ZDP-189 held a piss-poor edge.

S30V, which I have used a little bit but not extensively (although I will be using it more since I got a new knife with this steel), has proven to hold an edge better than VG-10 and certainly better than ZDP-189. Edge retention aside (because my ZDP-189 in both of my knives may have been a flop), S30V takes a lot less time to sharpen. ZDP-189 would take a wicked edge, but it would take 3-4 times longer to sharpen than VG-10. S30V sharpens up in about the same time as VG-10 in my experience so far.
The General wrote:CPM 440V AKA S60V was a totally different steel to S30V. It was a much more difficult steel to sharpen, far more fragile and really not at all suited to even a moderately hard use knife. Only tip I ever broke on a Spyderco was with a S60V blade. It did not take much to do it either.
I just got a knife in 440V. I haven't used it, but I do know that it wasn't difficult to sharpen.
nozh2002 wrote:Because I heart about broken tips and it happened even with INFI. So to me this is not brittleness.
Vassili, it's "heard," not "heart." You keep messing me up when I'm trying to speed-read through the thread :p
Im not good at sharpening, even with a sharpmaker. How get your blade good can your blade with an edge pro system? - Bladeforums user

Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? - Some Online Meme

The General
Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am

Postby The General » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:36 pm

I seem to remember that the early S60V (CPM 440V) knife blades were hardened to 58+ on the Rc scale and this caused issues (issues I also identified). I also remember that testing showed reducing the Rc hardness to 54-55 Rc had almost no effect on the edge holding but made the blades far more durable and a bit easier to sharpen.

Now, to qualify my statement regarding sharpening. I prefer a hair shaving polished edge. S60V is not the easiest steel to get such an edge on. Yes, I can and have done it but it was more work than I wanted to put in. Especially as the steel did not really seem to hold such an edge very well.

In fact, I found sharpening with the flat brown Sharpmaker stones gave a very acceptable edge and it held that edge really well. Did not shave very well though.

S60V is not a steel I will miss.
My real name is Wayne :D

The General
Member
Posts: 535
Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am

Postby The General » Sun Sep 19, 2010 7:42 pm

Oh and just to add, in Soviet Russia, knife sharpens YOU! :D
My real name is Wayne :D

User avatar
chuck_roxas45
Member
Posts: 8677
Joined: Wed Mar 03, 2010 5:43 pm
Location: Small City, Philippines
Contact:

Postby chuck_roxas45 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 9:17 pm

David Lowry wrote:Two nights ago I had a really excellent Crunchy peanut butter and blueberry jam sandwich. Man was that good. The blueberry jam came from a local produce farm.
Well, you see, the thing about crunchy peanut butter is that the grit size of the bits have no consistency making for skewed results from chewing tests.

Rambo241
Member
Posts: 68
Joined: Wed May 26, 2010 7:24 am
Location: USA! Missouri to be a little more specific.

Postby Rambo241 » Sun Sep 19, 2010 11:24 pm

I am glad to see some people trying to turn this thread around. The reason I finally joined and stopped lurking was because of the impressive amount of nice, cool, and informative people that I had found on this forum. So everybody make friends now before I have to make you hug each other in the corner until you finally figure out that we are all on the same side.

Originally Posted by David Lowry View Post
Two nights ago I had a really excellent Crunchy peanut butter and blueberry jam sandwich. Man was that good. The blueberry jam came from a local produce farm.

:eek: Can't believe I haven't thought of that combination before... Looks like I will be purchasing some blueberry jam next time I have a chance! :D

-Blaine

User avatar
NoFair
Member
Posts: 2033
Joined: Mon Jul 24, 2006 3:23 pm
Location: Norway

Postby NoFair » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:58 am

The General wrote:I seem to remember that the early S60V (CPM 440V) knife blades were hardened to 58+ on the Rc scale and this caused issues (issues I also identified). I also remember that testing showed reducing the Rc hardness to 54-55 Rc had almost no effect on the edge holding but made the blades far more durable and a bit easier to sharpen.

Now, to qualify my statement regarding sharpening. I prefer a hair shaving polished edge. S60V is not the easiest steel to get such an edge on. Yes, I can and have done it but it was more work than I wanted to put in. Especially as the steel did not really seem to hold such an edge very well.

In fact, I found sharpening with the flat brown Sharpmaker stones gave a very acceptable edge and it held that edge really well. Did not shave very well though.

S60V is not a steel I will miss.
It is relatively easy to maintain a polished convex edge with S60V (bit of a pita getting there though ;) ). My Lil'Temp has been doing great with this edge the last few months :D

Sverre

PS! Gotta make your own blueberry jam people :p

User avatar
SaturnNyne
Member
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:53 pm
Location: Cambria, CA

Postby SaturnNyne » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:45 am

dbcad wrote:I'm thinking about a nice thick reuben....
I've actually never heard of a reuben, is this an east coast thing or am I just really out of the sandwich loop?

David Lowry wrote:Two nights ago I had a really excellent Crunchy peanut butter and blueberry jam sandwich. Man was that good. The blueberry jam came from a local produce farm.
Now that sounds good! I should look into finding some local blueberry jam, everything I find in regular stores is made with high fructose corn syrup, which I'd rather avoid when possible.

David Lowry wrote:Personally I like CPM-S30V better than ZDP-189. Not for any special scientific or metallurgical reason. Simply because it makes me happy. It cuts like mad and sharpens easy. It holds an edge longer than most steels and it's tough. CPM-S30V has been my favorite steel for about 3 years. VG-10 is my second favorite.
That's pretty much exactly how I feel. I know it's not the best steel in the world, but if I weren't allowed to see the labels and had to pick a steel based purely on the experience of using it, I'd probably end up with S30V.

The General wrote:Wow I got told to learn how to sharpen.

Classic.
Don't let it get to you, that's his response whenever anyone says their experience with sharpening a steel is different. It's classic trolling, though I'm still not totally convinced he does it on purpose. Maybe I'm trying too hard to think the best of him (or, as he calls it, making a personal attack on him due to his claimed ethnicity—also classic).

The General wrote:Oh and just to add, in Soviet Russia, knife sharpens YOU! :D
:D

chuck_roxas45 wrote:Well, you see, the thing about crunchy peanut butter is that the grit size of the bits have no consistency making for skewed results from chewing tests.
I've heard that some of the latest crunchy peanut butters address this by spraying it into nitrogen so as to rapidly cool it into particles of uniform composition before the bits can wander and create substantial inconsistencies. These particles are then compressed back into a more consistent whole than can be achieved by traditional methods.
"Nothing makes a knife maker-designer feel better than to see their efforts used." -Ed
~ My knives list ~
~ Knife photos ~

User avatar
Ankerson
Member
Posts: 5244
Joined: Sat Jul 24, 2010 1:23 pm
Location: Raleigh, NC

Postby Ankerson » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:47 am

SaturnNyne wrote:I've actually never heard of a reuben, is this an east coast thing or am I just really out of the sandwich loop?


Might be. :D

I love a good Reuben. :cool:

That's good eating. :D

User avatar
Mr.Sparkitle
Member
Posts: 339
Joined: Thu Feb 21, 2008 8:21 pm
Location: Cambria, Ca
Contact:

Postby Mr.Sparkitle » Mon Sep 20, 2010 10:53 am

Saturn when did crucible start making CMP peanut butter? and where can you find it, that sounds amazing.
PE Military/CE Mini Manix/CE D'Allara/Yojimbo/Centofante 3//PE D4 Wave/PE D4 Wave/Sage 3/ZDP CE D4//Manix2/Barong/D2 ParaMili/G10 Endura//Manix2//M4 Manix2/Caly Jr./Sage II/M4 Military/Lum Tanto Sprint/MT01/MT02/MT03/MT04/MT05/MT06//FRN UKPK/Karambit/Bug/Honeybee/Grasshopper/Sprint Swick/Swick2/Chokwe//Military//ZDP Stretch//Delica//DayHiker/Lum Chinese//Sage/Chicago/Terzuola/Michael Walker/LeafStorm/SuperHawk/Gayle Bradly//Bushcraft/XHP Military//

User avatar
dj moonbat
Member
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Postby dj moonbat » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:05 am

I've actually never heard of a reuben, is this an east coast thing or am I just really out of the sandwich loop?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reuben_sandwich

User avatar
SaturnNyne
Member
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:53 pm
Location: Cambria, CA

Postby SaturnNyne » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:07 am

Mr.Sparkitle wrote:Saturn when did crucible start making CMP peanut butter? and where can you find it, that sounds amazing.
It may still be in R&D, I think they only started on it around the time that the company changed hands. They're trading in their previous cutlery and tool steel bread and butter for cutting edge peanut butter!


Wow, that really does look good! I always learn something or get new ideas during our sandwich talks.
"Nothing makes a knife maker-designer feel better than to see their efforts used." -Ed
~ My knives list ~
~ Knife photos ~

User avatar
dj moonbat
Member
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Postby dj moonbat » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:09 am

Mr.Sparkitle wrote:Saturn when did crucible start making CMP peanut butter? and where can you find it, that sounds amazing.
Crucible's Crunch Master Process (CMP) peanut butter is crap. Everybody knows that. Hitachi's Zip249 (z249) is the only alternative for people who truly know.

Some people say it's too hard to spread -- bah! This is slacker talk. I have personally spread at least 5 thousand jars of every modern peanut butter blend; my wrist starts hurting the same for CMP and z249. Who are these fools to doubt my results?

User avatar
SaturnNyne
Member
Posts: 324
Joined: Sat Jul 18, 2009 4:53 pm
Location: Cambria, CA

Postby SaturnNyne » Mon Sep 20, 2010 11:14 am

dj moonbat wrote:Crucible's Crunch Master Process (CMP) peanut butter is crap. Everybody knows that. Hitachi's Zip249 (z249) is the only alternative for people who truly know.

Some people say it's too hard to spread -- bah! This is slacker talk. I have personally spread at least 5 thousand jars of every modern peanut butter blend; my wrist starts hurting the same for CMP and z249. Who are these fools to doubt my results?
My own testing has led me to rank them differently. Zip may very well be a superior peanut butter, but it requires refrigeration after opening—it's not just harder to spread, it's impossible without waiting for it to warm up first.
"Nothing makes a knife maker-designer feel better than to see their efforts used." -Ed
~ My knives list ~
~ Knife photos ~

User avatar
dj moonbat
Member
Posts: 1201
Joined: Sat Mar 27, 2010 11:58 am
Location: Sunny SoCal

Postby dj moonbat » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:24 pm

SaturnNyne wrote:My own testing has led me to rank them differently. Zip may very well be a superior peanut butter, but it requires refrigeration after opening—it's not just harder to spread, it's impossible without waiting for it to warm up first.
You should learn to spread before you even come talk to me!

nozh2002
Member
Posts: 315
Joined: Wed Dec 15, 2004 7:56 pm

Postby nozh2002 » Mon Sep 20, 2010 12:56 pm

I see this desperate effort to make this thread closed...

Well, I still wait apologies from "Special Project Coordinator" and comments from Sal.

Thanks, Vassili.


Return to “Spyderco General Discussion”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: blues, dan31, Google [Bot], jdw, jpm2, Mushroom, Notsurewhy, rivy, sabb8pro2, scribelr, Sharp Guy, Sumdumguy and 84 guests