Taiwan by the Numbers

[26.2Madness]

If I have counted correctly, Spyderco has made 9 models in Taiwan. 3 of those models have been discontinued due to quality issues. Does that mean if I buy a Taiwanese Spyderco, I have a 33.3% chance of getting a dud?

Maybe it is time to end the Taiwan experiment, and stick to manufacturing in the US and Japan only?

[demtek9]

No, most Spyderco models are female and not dudes.

[THG]

Shield yourself. You're gonna need to.

No, it doesn't mean that if you get a Taiwan model that there's a high chance it's going to be a dud. People have been getting Sages (1 and 2) and Gayle Bradleys, and I don't think I've heard of a problem with any of those.

Of course, I'm also not liking the rise in Spyderco knives being made overseas.

[D1omedes]

The makers of the Sage are top-notch. I'm all for keeping those guys around.

Although I do wish more knives were made in Golden, I don't let that stop me from enjoying certain Spyderco models. Whether we like it or not, globalization is how the world runs nowadays. Sal is very honest about that and I also believe is on top of the issues that matter most - customer service and quality control.

[Murdoc]

3 of those models have been discontinued due to quality issues.

That's not true.

The Spyderco online catalog shows 10 Taiwan made Spydies, all but one (Bushcraft) still available AFAIK, but the Bushie only because of bad wood that was delivered to the knife manufacturer (maybe even from the US??) A new model variant, most likely still made in Taiwan by the same people, is in the works.

CAT and Chicago were made by a different maker than the other current Taiwan models.


Wrong premise --> wrong conclusion.


Dennis

[npueppke]

The Cat and Chicago that were introduced this year have created some interesting challenges for Spyderco.

These knives were produced with one of two Taiwan makers. Unfortunately, the first run of these items came in with severe quality issues and the Spyderco Management Team chose not to ship them. Instead, we worked with the maker for any possible improvements that could be made to the existing parts already in process. Because all of the parts had been produced for both knives for the entire run of the product, it was difficult because the problems were in the carbon fiber scales and the jimping on the top of the knife. The second batch that we received was improved as much as they could be without producing all new parts. Spyderco accepted almost no margin in order to offer a fair price for the product regardless of our costs. Of course, in our turbulent economy they sold out very quickly and we are now completely out of stock.

At this time, we are not able to reproduce these products with our quality expectations at a cost low enough for us to continue selling them at the current prices. With this in mind, we have decided to immediately discontinue the C129CFP Cat and C130CFP Chicago.

So the Cat and Chicago were discontinued due to poor quality delivered by the maker. We don't know if this is due to bad tooling or sloppy quality assurance or what. It's possible that it was an honest mistake on the maker's part or something and that they will get used again in the future. It's just too complicated of an issue and we don't know all of the facts.

The Bushcraft seems to have been top notch except for the scales, but again we don't know where the wood came from or who the supplier was, or maybe the wood supplier didn't do the stabilizing in house, who knows. The knife itself seems to have been top notch though, so you can't fault the maker for that muck up.

The other discontinued Taiwanese spydies were discontinued due to the normal reasons AFIK.

You don't have a 33.3% chance of getting a dud, you have a ~0% chance of getting a dud, because you just have to avoid that particular maker. As far as I know every current Taiwanese spydie is made by the same maker, and that is the one that makes the Sage, and that maker is absolutely top notch.

[LorenzoL]

So the Cat and Chicago were discontinued due to poor quality delivered by the maker. We don't know if this is due to bad tooling or sloppy quality assurance or what. It's possible that it was an honest mistake on the maker's part or something and that they will get used again in the future. It's just too complicated of an issue and we don't know all of the facts.

The Bushcraft seems to have been top notch except for the scales, but again we don't know where the wood came from or who the supplier was, or maybe the wood supplier didn't do the stabilizing in house, who knows. The knife itself seems to have been top notch though, so you can't fault the maker for that muck up.

The other discontinued Taiwanese spydies were discontinued due to the normal reasons AFIK.

You don't have a 33.3% chance of getting a dud, you have a ~0% chance of getting a dud, because you just have to avoid that particular maker. As far as I know every current Taiwanese spydie is made by the same maker, and that is the one that makes the Sage, and that maker is absolutely top notch.

The Sages 1 & 2 and the Bradley are among the best finished Spydercos.
Edit: After reading catamount's post, I realize I missed the part about there being a single Taiwanese member. There are two, Kristi recently posted all the pertinent information about the Cat & Chicago fiasco.

[catamount]

As far as I know every current Taiwanese spydie is made by the same maker, and that is the one that makes the Sage, and that maker is absolutely top notch.

The maker of the Sage (also Bradley, Chokwe and Terzuola Slipit) did NOT make the Chicago and Cat. I don't know if they made the Bushcraft or not, but the issue was the wood scales (which didn't come from Taiwan), not the maker.

[spoonrobot]

Your probability knowledge...needs work.

[Sequimite]

The provider of the wood Bushcraft scales was identified as having failed to stabilize them properly. This is probably an American supplier IMO.

One only has to look at the knives to know that the maker of the Sage, GB, etc. did not make the Cat and Chicago. My pet theory is that parts of these two, including the CF scales were supplied from Mainland China. I thought this when the original pricing was announced and when the quality issues occurred.

While it's silly to judge an entire country or region (Japan????) by two examples from a single factory, I must admit that I've, to a much lesser extent done the same thing in that I intend to by every knife made by the Taiwanese maker of the Bob T, Gayle Bardley, Sages, ... because they are the best made Spydies I have ever experienced.

[Blerv]

Two different makers. One designs world class knives that keeps USA and Japan on it's toes. One that only has produces the Cat and Chicago which started as price-point knives and had some problems.

M4/CF folders approaching custom fit & finish for just over $100? Yep, nothing but duds from Taiwan :p . Lol

[unit]

The probability that I become frustrated after clicking on "Taiwan" threads is rising daily.

[The Deacon]

Two different makers. One designs world class knives that keeps USA and Japan on it's toes. One that only has produces the Cat and Chicago which started as price-point knives and had some problems.

M4/CF folders approaching custom fit & finish for just over $100? Yep, nothing but duds from Taiwan :p . Lol

In fairness, Spyderco's decision to do that - have a knife build from relatively expensive materials to hit an extremely low price point - may have been as much the problem as the maker's decision to agree to build them.

Fully agree that the Sages and the other models produced by the maker responsible for them exhibit consistently excellent fit and finish. But most here know those things already and, based on his previous posts here, I really doubt the OP was ever in any danger of buying a Taiwanese "dude", or any Taiwanese made knife. We can only speculate on the motives for his almost amusingly creative interpretation of the data. :rolleyes:

[flash900]

Paul,

Thanks -- as usual -- for your insight and wisdom.

[Blerv]

In fairness, Spyderco's decision to do that - have a knife build from relatively expensive materials to hit an extremely low price point - may have been as much the problem as the maker's decision to agree to build them.

Very true.

When building on a budget quality seems more hit and miss. With knives like the Tenacious being built in China and still a serious value I think Spyderco just had a bad dice roll.

I don't think the maker is bad, nor the idea...just the result in this case. The downfall of being human is occasionally making mistakes.

[npueppke]

The maker of the Sage (also Bradley, Chokwe and Terzuola Slipit) did NOT make the Chicago and Cat. I don't know if they made the Bushcraft or not, but the issue was the wood scales (which didn't come from Taiwan), not the maker.

Sorry if I wasn't clear, I meant that since the Cat and Chicago are discontinued now, that maker isn't used to make any current spydercos as far as I know. Unless the Bushcraft was made by the maker that made the Cat/Chicago, this leaves one maker in Taiwan-the one that makes the Sage.

[5.56]

Nevermind :)

[RIOT]

personally i dont buy any taiwan built Spydercos or China

[HotSoup]

I think manufacturers should stop using Taiwanese companies to build their knives. The Sage is actually very nice, and I've examined one close-up to check it out, but every other day I keep hearing bad things about quality control. I just got a Cold Steel Rajah I, made in Taiwan, and for the price it goes for, I expect perfection. The edge was very poorly ground, and lopsided.

I have a few Taiwanese knives and a few Chinese, and as far as I can tell, the stuff that comes out of China is WAY better, and I've heard ZERO issues about them in the past.

Spyderco, I hope your not using Taiwan to appease the people who have some distorted political of philosophical opposition to Chinese-made products, because you are going to lose more customers than you would having knives made in China by using these guys in Taiwan who keep making CRAP.

[yablanowitz]

Of course, I'm also not liking the rise in Spyderco knives being made overseas.

What rise is that? How many Spyderco knives were made overseas twenty years ago, ten years ago and today? Or perhaps I should say how many were made in the USA twenty years ago, ten years ago and today?

I think manufacturers should stop using Taiwanese companies to build their knives.

There's a great idea. Stop using one of the three makers in the entire world that Sal believes is capable of producing compression lock knives to his satisfaction.

The Sage is actually very nice, and I've examined one close-up to check it out, but every other day I keep hearing bad things about quality control.

Where have you been hanging out? I don't recall seeing a dozen legitimate QC complaints on the Sage series since the first one came out.

I just got a Cold Steel Rajah I, made in Taiwan, and for the price it goes for, I expect perfection. The edge was very poorly ground, and lopsided.

You are absolutely certain it was made by the same maker who does the Sage and it went through Spyderco quality control before it went to Cold Steel? Otherwise, what bearing does it have on the subject at hand? Oh, by the way, if you expect perfection at any price point, brace yourself for disappointment. Perfection is an unobtainable goal.

I have a few Taiwanese knives and a few Chinese, and as far as I can tell, the stuff that comes out of China is WAY better, and I've heard ZERO issues about them in the past.

Spyderco, I hope your not using Taiwan to appease the people who have some distorted political of philosophical opposition to Chinese-made products, because you are going to lose more customers than you would having knives made in China by using these guys in Taiwan who keep making CRAP.

No, they are using them because they have in the past been able to meet quality requirements. This was a failed experiment and nothing more. If you think the knife is crap because it says Taiwan on the blade, you may be a customer they don't need. It is a hard lesson to learn, but there really are customers a business is better off without.