Any interest in 154CM Native 4?

[mwebb524]

I have been very impressed with 154cm in my Manix 2 (and an "off-brand" knife :o ). I would snap up a Golden made Native 4 in G10 and 154cm, especially if it was priced in the range of the base model Manix 2. I wouldn't even mind if it was hollow ground, preferably without the spine swedge, although I prefer FFG. I suppose this would basically be a mini-M2 with a back lock, but the size is actually what keeps the M2 out of my pocket more often than not. There was a post from Sal a while back that the Native 4 would be available in a variety of handle and blade materials. Would anyone else buy one?

[The Deacon]

Depending on how it compares, in terms of cost, to S30V, I'd think it might be a natural for an entry level FRN Native IV, then make a G-10/S30V for those who want higher performance materials.

[mc shiv]

I have to say, I've been skeptical about 154CM ever since reading Bill Bagwell's book. In a chapter entitled "Steel Yourself," he remarks, "The sudden and great popularity of 154CM as a knife steel in the mid- to late 1970s is a classic case of a gullible public buying a bill of goods lock, stock, and barrel. 154CM is a really poor choice of steel from the user's standpoint. It is extremely abrasion resistant and a perfect ***** to sharpen. It also has an extremely discomforting tendency to chip when thin sections are subjected to stress, like the edge of your knife when chopping a tree limb. The cutting performance of this steel is not first rate, and the resulting edge has a slick quality that requires pressure to cause it to cut."

Not that Bagwell is the Final Word or anything, but the guy is an extremely knowledgeable knifemaker and knows more than most. On the other hand, perhaps there have been strides made with 154CM since the article appeared in 1985? (in which case, you would think he would have revised his opinion when it appeared in book form in 2000).

Just wondering what you guys think about this.

[Lord vader]

I have heard that CPM 154 is an improvement over 154CM.So there have been some improvements from what I have been told.I would buy a native with this steel and try it.

[MCM]

I think it must depend on the heat treat.
I have several Microtech's from 1997-1999 where it's 100% phenomenal. Happy I bought so many back in the day.
Great users.
While other 154 has been just mediocre. I do prefer it over S30v though.

Food for thought & another opinion.

[mjsnative]

I have not read Bagwell's book but I can say from experience 154CM is an excellent steel. I have owned several benchmades made from it and one spyderco with it. On all of them I have had no trouble sharpening them or have they chipped out. The way I see it there are to many custom knife makers using this steel for it to be a bad steel. I would love to see a native done in this steel.

[ChapmanPreferred]

I'm really looking forward to the Native IV Lightweight!

[Blerv]

I think 154cm is a great steel. My Manix2 came scary sharp from the factory.

With many custom makers using it along with Benchmade for the base knives I think it's a great steel for the price. It doesn't seem to have the polish of VG10 but it's impressed me far more than most the AUS8 competitors steels.

As for a 154cm Native4 I guess it depends on what the savings means. If it could save around $10 on street pricing that means the standard Native4 could be a nice budget knife while being USA made.

[The Deacon]

I have heard that CPM 154 is an improvement over 154CM.So there have been some improvements from what I have been told.I would buy a native with this steel and try it.

That's true. However, from what I understand CPM-154 is also priced much higher than 154CM and pretty much the same price as S30V. Again, from what I understand, at that price S30V is generally considered to be the better steel. The rationale for using 154CM is to create a lower priced, entry level knife. Using CPM-154 wouldn't accomplish that.

[bh49]

I certainly wouldn't buy any hollow ground Natives, only FFG for me. Regarding the steel, if 154CM will bring significant cash savings, than it can be OK, otherwise I would stick with S30V.

[angusW]

I really really love my Manix 2 with 154CM steel but I was quite surprised when I came home from work the other day and found a bunch of chips in the blade. I had used it to strip #6 stranded wire. It's the first time I've put this knife through it's paces and I was a bit disappointed with the end result.

I also have the smurf Manix but in a way I like the ergo's of the black handled one with 154CM better.

A lot of people would be interested in a cheaper Native but in my opinion it's priced at a low price already. I don't see a reason to use a steel with lower qualities.

[SecSpyral]

Nope

[VashHash]

154CM is actually a used in turbos and made it's way into the knife world. When people first started using it it wasn't the purest steel and had alot of imperfections so everyone would use ATS-34. I think alot of the kinks are out of 154CM now though. I know my Manix 2 in 154CM is an EXCELLENT knife. Holds an heck of an edge and it's tough as nails. I also find it really easy to sharpen be it on ceramic stones or diamond.

[Blerv]

I really really love my Manix 2 with 154CM steel but I was quite surprised when I came home from work the other day and found a bunch of chips in the blade. I had used it to strip #6 stranded wire. It's the first time I've put this knife through it's paces and I was a bit disappointed with the end result.

I also have the smurf Manix but in a way I like the ergo's of the black handled one with 154CM better.

A lot of people would be interested in a cheaper Native but in my opinion it's priced at a low price already. I don't see a reason to use a steel with lower qualities.

It's possible s30v would have survives the task better but honestlysteel vs steel is a tough fight regardless. I wouldn't even pit a folder against a twist tie from the grocery store because the potential bummer is bigger than the potential success.

On that note there was a review of the Gayle Bradley on bladeforums where he used it along with a ZT in 154cm to cut electrical tape (the kind with tiny wires) and the GB went through 50 cuts befor being noticably tougher. The ZT went through 6 and stopped cutting. The GB needed ceramic stones to shave again and the ZT needed a bench grinder.

Hard to beat M4 for that. Still possible to chip but the threshold is wayy up there.

[Lord vader]

That's true. However, from what I understand CPM-154 is also priced much higher than 154CM and pretty much the same price as S30V. Again, from what I understand, at that price S30V is generally considered to be the better steel. The rationale for using 154CM is to create a lower priced, entry level knife. Using CPM-154 wouldn't accomplish that.

I completly agree,and I have nothing against 154cm,I personally think it`s a good steel.If the object was to keep cost down then yeah 154CM would be the way to go.

[MCM]

I prefer good 154cm to S30v.

But am not a fan of pinned knifes like the Native.

[LowTEC]

My 154CM experience hasn't been great, I find them quite brittle and micro-chipping extremely easy. They usually take me the longest while to get close to hair whittle sharp but the edge simply don't last any longer than any cheap steel. I now AVOID 154CM at all cost regardless how great a knife design is. Say NO to 154CM :spyder:

The day Spyderco uses 154CM instead of VG-10 to be the entry level steel on every model, I will stop buying :spyder:

[rlw1979777]

I too will not buy 154CM or CPM-154. I have found that it is a joke to even AUS-8 and VG10. It chips, and is CONSTANTLY dull. I will not buy it ever again. I had one knife with this so called steel, and was surprised that a Boker Biscuit did better in edge retention. Never again, I say. Hold out for S30v, and hopefully something better then that.

[aj1985]

I have no knives with the above mentioned steel and only one with CPM-154 by RJ Martin. I love it. I think RJ Martin said it best.

"Remember, you don't need to be a steel expert. That's my job! You do need to decide WHERE, HOW and FOR WHAT PURPOSE you want to use your knife. If you tell me this, I'll give you the best steel possible for YOU."

aj

[StangBang]

hmmm
Funny, the knife I carried and used relentlessly for 4-5 years was 154cm and I have no complaints. Is it as good as S30V? No, but for the price what more can you ask for? I think 154cm is a good user steel at the price point.