Being ridiculous about ergonomics

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WhitefeatherTexas
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Being ridiculous about ergonomics

Postby WhitefeatherTexas » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:37 pm

Let me begin with a disclaimer. Most knife owners will pay good money for the knives they buy and they enjoy quality in what they own, therefore it is normal for them to buy a knife that satisfies all the criteria they may have concerning knives. That being said, if you don't like a knife because of some certain attribute that knife has then you don't have to buy it. However, there is a point I want to make about all this. I'll use the Spyderco leafstorm for an example. People have criticized the Leafstorm for its ergonomics, namely that it doesn't have finger choil next to the blade. This is ridiculous. Why do you need such an iron grip on a sub three inch blade? What in the world are you doing with small knives like these that requires a four fingered grip, are you cutting down trees? Another thing that makes me laugh is the obsession with jimping. I rarely use the jimping on my EDC knifes. I understand that its good to have jimping if you're doing a thrust but otherwise its not so necessary.

I took some pictures of normal cutting tasks to illustrate my points.

[img][IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o240 ... 3142a5.jpg[/img][/IMG]
Only a three fingered hold? Its gonna fly out of my hand!!!! :eek: :eek:

Heres how I usually hold my knife for most cuts:

[img][IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o240 ... 982b83.jpg[/img][/IMG][img][IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o240 ... 29c163.jpg[/img][/IMG][img][IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o240 ... b28015.jpg[/img][/IMG][img][IMG]http://i121.photobucket.com/albums/o240 ... 331cde.jpg[/img][/IMG]

h2oflyer
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Postby h2oflyer » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:53 pm

That's exactly how I hold mine....it's a 2.5 in knife. Nice scale on your LS

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hiredgun
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Postby hiredgun » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:53 pm

Point(s) well spoken and I agree, however, the mall ninja in some of us disagrees with your reasoning. :p
You can't display a toad in a fine restaurant like this! Why, the good folks here would go right off the feed!

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WhitefeatherTexas
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Postby WhitefeatherTexas » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:56 pm

hiredgun wrote:Point(s) well spoken and I agree, however, the mall ninja in some of us disagrees with your reasoning. :p
:D Haha, well I don't mean to offend the Mall Ninjas! They can put as much jimping on their swords and throwing stars as they like.

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WhitefeatherTexas
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Postby WhitefeatherTexas » Tue Mar 30, 2010 5:57 pm

h2oflyer wrote:That's exactly how I hold mine....it's a 2.5 in knife. Nice scale on your LS
Thanks, I love the scale too. I'd by more of them if my wife would let me near the money.

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spoonrobot
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Postby spoonrobot » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:15 pm

I'm still not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Other than sharing your personal preferences and mocking people who deploy smaller folders in a hard use role; there isn't much to your thread. :confused:

Trying to figure out other people's opinions based on need makes no sense. It's about wants and preferences.

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WhitefeatherTexas
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Postby WhitefeatherTexas » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:16 pm

spoonrobot wrote:I'm still not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Other than sharing your personal preferences and mocking people who deploy smaller folders in a hard use role; there isn't much to your thread. :confused:

Trying to figure out other people's opinions based on need makes no sense. It's about wants and preferences.
Apparently you didn't read the Disclaimer. I didn't mean to mock anyone and its all in good fun.

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Agent_Ohm
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Postby Agent_Ohm » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:20 pm

excellent writeup and I love the custom scales
In omnia paratus

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WhitefeatherTexas
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Postby WhitefeatherTexas » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:23 pm

spoonrobot wrote:I'm still not entirely sure what point you're trying to make. Other than sharing your personal preferences and mocking people who deploy smaller folders in a hard use role; there isn't much to your thread. :confused:

Trying to figure out other people's opinions based on need makes no sense. It's about wants and preferences.
Don't get me wrong I love Super-ergonomic knives thats why I'm trying to get my hands on that new Green Manix.

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The Deacon
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Postby The Deacon » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:25 pm

Glad you love your Leafstorm. One of the great things about Spyderco is that they makes knives to fit a wide variety of tastes and philosophies.

As for me, I don't require an "iron grip" on any knife. In fact, it's just the opposite. My hands cannot grip a knife hard, so I prefer one that does not require much in the way of grip. That is how I define ergonomic. Given the choice between a knife that feels comfortable in my hand and stays where I put it without much pressure, and one that feels both uncomfortable and insecure,, I will take the one that feels better every time. That's why, for example, I prefer the Jester to the Ladybug and the Calypso Jr to the Centofante III.

Among Spyderco knives about the size of the Leafstorm, I find the Kiwi and Kopa extremely comfortable in my hand, while the Leafstorm feels like a block of wood to me. Beyond that, there's esthetics. I wouldn't give a Kiwi in that transulcent G-10, or one with G-10 on ones side and titanium on the other, house room and the Kiwi is my favorite small knife. Why should I buy a wrong handed knife I find both uncomfortable and unattractive?
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Jazz
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Postby Jazz » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:35 pm

I agree that some obsess a bit about choils and such. I like them, but I also really like that the Delicas and Enduras don't really have them, and hope they never do - the ones that have choils, I really like - those that don't, I really like, as long as no real danger is involved. Some people, however like to feel comforted in their small knives as possible defense tools, and a little extra safety is definately warranted, but hey... buy a knife with a choil and jimping and don't knock other knives. If I carried a Leafstorm, I'd also have another blade on me more suitable for defense, as I like to feel that bit of comfort (though I'd rather run than cut somebody, but one never knows). Also, I really like some knives without jimping, like the Dragonfly, for example - I also really like jimping on most knives. To each his or her own, though I don't mind stating my desires for a certain knife, if I had my druthers. Good thread. :)

- best wishes, Jazz.

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MCM
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Postby MCM » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:54 pm

Agree, here are a few little ones that shouldn't work great.
But guess what?
Most work great!

The Big surprise is the ZDP Walker.........

Carry on..........

Image
:spyder: :eek: :spyder: :eek: :spyder: :eek: :spyder:
More S90v & CF please.......

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araneae
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Postby araneae » Tue Mar 30, 2010 6:59 pm

Personally I don't find much appealing about the Leafstorm. I'd take an ergonomically excellent D'fly over it any day. And yes my D'flies are jimped and they have done their share of hard use. :)
So many knives, so few pockets... :)
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WhitefeatherTexas
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Postby WhitefeatherTexas » Tue Mar 30, 2010 7:11 pm

MCM wrote:Agree, here are a few little ones that shouldn't work great.
But guess what?
Most work great!

The Big surprise is the ZDP Walker.........

Carry on..........

Image
Nice spread! What knife is the little auto in the middle, is that a Boker?

Pete2s
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Postby Pete2s » Tue Mar 30, 2010 8:38 pm

I posted this in the other Leafstorm thread:


I find it crazy that Spyderco fans are complaining about a lack of finger guards! Almost all the popular models from Spyderco lack any sort of slip stopping groove/choil/handle recurve or whatever you want to call it. The Endura and Delica have very conservative lines in the handle where you index finger rests, as well as the Military and Police. None of those knives will offer any protection when your hand starts to slip forward aside from the thumb ramps.

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chinook
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Postby chinook » Tue Mar 30, 2010 9:47 pm

The only thing I find ridiculous is the title of this thread.

Ergonomics count.

How much is up to you.

Or me.
.><CHINOOK*>

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Leatherneck
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Postby Leatherneck » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:09 am

I really like a choil. I use it all the time on my Para, Sage, etc.. If I were to purchase a smaller Spydie I'd be looking at the G10 D'fly. I looked at a Leafstorm because of the framelock and solid build, but frankly the way I use my knives I'd be afraid I'd cut myself at the back of that blade. Thankfully Spyderco offers a ton of variety. Everyone is different.
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HotSoup
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Postby HotSoup » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:21 am

Different strokes for different folks.

I generally agree with your post.

The human hand will adapt to many shapes if it requires to use a tool in a certain way.

There is ideal designs for maximum grip, but these are not necessary in most models.
I for one like having a pretty good slide-proof grip, as I mostly own knives for Self Defense purposes, otherwise they are shelf-queens that stay in a box.

There is also the balance between ergonomics and aesthetics. Spyderco does a fine job on both.

I don't find it necessary to put skateboard tape on the thumb-ramp of a Dragonfly or Barong.... *wink wink*

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Blerv
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Postby Blerv » Wed Mar 31, 2010 1:26 am

I think you make some great points. The Leafstorm is a classy small folder and most cuts are likely envelopes and packages.

We often want utility knives that serve amazing tactical roles. We want our tactical knives to be utilitarian friendly. The truth is often blending purposes misses performance in each area. I don't rely on the choil or thumb ramp nearly ever and see the Leaf to be a cool little knife. I actually prefer "hard use" larger knives that lock your grip between two stops/bolsters like the stretch, barong, superhawk, etc.

As for the title I think a little tongue-n-cheek is allowed. There have been enough people raising a fuss lately that it's nice to see someone thrilled with the purchase. If you don't like it, sell it. If you're lazy, gift it. It's not like you have to file a divorce with a knife ;) .
:spyder: Blake :spyder:

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Doc Pyres
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Postby Doc Pyres » Wed Mar 31, 2010 4:53 am

MCM wrote:
Image
WhitefeatherTexas wrote:Nice spread! What knife is the little auto in the middle, is that a Boker?
I agree, nice group of knives. The dark handled little auto in the middle looks like a ProTech Runt.


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