Sal, what about Taiwan quality?

[npueppke]

I know it's been answered but I believe you can differentiate the manufacturer's by the tang stamp. On all models I've seen or seen pictures of, the Sage manufacturer uses a distinct font/engraving style with "Spyderco" written in a curve, whereas the other maker has the text running straight. There are also a few other differences like different hardware/screws, different CF, but this is less certain than the tang stamp, a feature which is likely unique to each maker.

[SaturnNyne]

But the one that made the cat/chicago series is second rate at best.

That's the reputation they've gotten, but I'm not sure it's completely deserved. They definitely did turn out some knives that exhibited poor finish, but for the most part I don't think the entirety of even the first batch were *bad knives* overall. They exhibited quality less than that of other Spydercos that had similar prices but cheaper components.

I cannot comment on the CAT & Chicago...

A cat is an animal, not an acronym. It's pronounced like... well, it's pronounced like cat, not like see ay tee. Just so you know. :)

Some were even happy with the "less well done" first batch.

I have a second from the first batch and it's one of the best knives I have. The CF isn't very attractive, the holes weren't all drilled just right, and not many would call it a remarkably beautiful knife, but aside from the cosmetics it's perfect. Actually, I think it's a better knife than the Sage. The lockup is as solid or better and makes a much more authoritative SNAP!, unlocking feels better because the liner is a little stiffer and doesn't feel quite so limp-wristed, blade action is a little smoother, and the ergonomics work much better for my (large) hands. Not bad at all for the $31 I paid! (Even better for the $10 it originally sold for at the SFO sale.)

The bottom line is that my Cat gets carried regularly because it's a fantastic small knife; the Sage I look for excuses to carry because it's pretty and sharper than anything else, but it's usually difficult to justify it over my various other knives that fill the same role.

I think that this thread and at least two others still running boil down to happines equals tailoring one's expectations regarding F&F to the pricepoint of the object that was purchased.
There just "ain't no free lunch."

In order to do that, Spyderco specified a lower grade of carbon fiber, somewhat less elegant hardware, and a slightly lower degree of finish. Those things, far more than the maker's skill, are what impact the overall perception of the knife's quality.

I think that's a big part of it. The Sage uses expensive components and is put together perfectly so it's nicer to fondle and examine; perception of quality is extremely high. The Cat uses cheaper components and the first batch had some finish problems (and at least a couple actual functional problems that I heard of), so the maker gained a reputation for low quality. It's true that the maker had some issues on the finish even without taking cheaper components into account, but what I've seen of the quality as a functional knife is just fine.

[The Deacon]

Somewhat OT, but the high end blade steel, all screw construction, full liners, and low street price of the Cat and Chicago also make them very tempting candidates for pimping. Am almost surprised we haven't seen more of them sporting wood, micarta, G-10, etc.

[RedRunner]

I understand the concerns about the origins of products, but the Spyderco knives are a different situation. You have a trusted, high-quality company insuring quality of the products coming from all over the world. So for me, I embrace the variety that Spyderco brings us from all over the world. The unique steels, expertise and styles coming out of age are amazing. With these two particular models we certainly are getting alot for our money.

Spyderco, Sal, et al.: Thank you for creating and maintaining such a wonderful company that some how manages to pull off the impossible. More variety than we could ever imagine coming out of such a small shop, quality at nearly (or exceeding some) custom levels, and pricing that is hard to argue about. You are a top notch, well run company. I wish we had more companies like yours in other industries. Truely a model company putting the Customer first.

[sal]

Thanx much Red Runner. Appreciate the kind words.

I guess this is not your typical conversation with a manufactuer's subforum?

Actually, we're quite impressed that our customers not only know about our products, in detail :eek: , (in enough detail to discuss quality differences in subcontractors?) but also have interest and knowledge about our company.

I am humbled.

sal

[jzmtl]

I don't have a cat/chicago, but regard the factory that makes sage, the F&F is right up there with my CF caly 3, that says something about their quality. The gayle bradley has some cosmetic flaws but is still very high quality.

Interesting tidbit I noticed, this particular manufacturer use a square shaped cutout at end of liner lock bar, don't think I've seen that on any other knives.

[2cha]

He he. What I think is funny is that the owner of the company spends his Sunday afternoon the same way I do!!!! :D

Thanks Sal for giving us this "virtual" place.

[flash900]

Thanks to everyone for a most interesting thread!

[Shenmue728]

I have noticed the 2 different "Spyderco" engravings on the tang, but didn't know that meant they were from the same maker :D

If this is true, that could mean the Zulu and PPT could be from the same maker that makes the Bradley :eek:

[dsmegst]

My Cat and Chicago is from a later batch, not the initial "poor quality" release. I've gone and done a full polish job on all the components and the finished results are on par with what's on the Sage 1, with the one exception of the CF finish quality. No matter what I try, I can't get the scales to look really nice. What I prefer on a smooth CF is how it's done on Seki City knives.

The top one is the polished Cat and the bottom one is the factory stock Chicago for comparison.

[jabba359]

Somewhat OT, but the high end blade steel, all screw construction, full liners, and low street price of the Cat and Chicago also make them very tempting candidates for pimping. Am almost surprised we haven't seen more of them sporting wood, micarta, G-10, etc.

Now that you mention it, I may have to pick up a few to play around with! This could become a fairly expensive habit, as there are so many potential scale materials. Must...resist...urge...to...pimp...knives...

[RIOT]

My Cat and Chicago is from a later batch, not the initial "poor quality" release. I've gone and done a full polish job on all the components and the finished results are on par with what's on the Sage 1, with the one exception of the CF finish quality. No matter what I try, I can't get the scales to look really nice. What I prefer on a smooth CF is how it's done on Seki City knives.

The top one is the polished Cat and the bottom one is the factory stock Chicago for comparison.

i could totally be wrong but i dont think getting that old school smooth shiny CF can be reproduced with some other of these newer CF models that have alot of texture, i think the old school ones have a thick coat of resin which is polished smooth on top of the CF giving it the effect of being perfectly smooth.

like i said i could be wrong, does anyone else have some thoughts on this ?

[jzmtl]

I've tried to polish a t-mag and the result was pretty awful. I know my method is sound as I have fixed many SAK scales and old scratched pens, but I could not get a good polish on it, the exposed CF fibers interfere too much, it actually looked better when left in a matte finish.

[dsmegst]

I've tried to polish a t-mag and the result was pretty awful. I know my method is sound as I have fixed many SAK scales and old scratched pens, but I could not get a good polish on it, the exposed CF fibers interfere too much, it actually looked better when left in a matte finish.

That makes sense. But in this case since the factory finish already has exposed fibers, it can only improve. I never thought about applying a top coat on CF, but how about a thin epoxy resin coat and some polishing? Maybe that will add a smooth surface to the scales that's going to polish up well.