Hang tough value. A buddy of mine thinks that Kershaw knives are the best because of the high quality stainless and assisted opening, but i want your opinions on the knives, versus the Spyderco knives on the market.
Here is the knife my friend thinks is better than all Spyderco blades:
http://www.888knivesrus.com/c=YlymgYAzM ... -5299.html
Reasons he thinks its great:
-Assisted blade (faster and easier open, legal)
-440 Stainless blade + 410 stainless handles
-Ambidextrous open and clip
Just the Pacific salt for comparison:
http://www.spydiewiki.com/index.php?tit ... cific_Salt
Reasons i think its awesome:
-H1 steel never rusts, and gets harder with use
-Spyder hole allows for ambidextrous opening, faster + safer than assisted (no pocket spring)
-Ambidextrous Clip (most have 4 way clips)
-Flat grind allows for easy sharpening, and holds a great blade if you keep up with it. If you sharpen regularly, as the blade steel hardens, your amount of sharpen time should be less frequent, but take longer
-FRN is much stronger than tungsten, IMO (Tungsten is a Stainless steel, but the FRN has a bit more "applicability" i will call it. It can be used in tons of different way, but is a lightweight handle material, and i prefer the feel over tungsten)
Alright, alright, i know i posted this on a biased forum. Hehe, that was on purpose, but i do want your honest opinions on the two knives, don't go Spydie just because this is Spydie forums.
As for today, Happy St. Patricks day, and enjoy your corned beef you silly buffoons. (I love irish people btw) Also, tell me what you did this St. Pattys day. I just pinched people who forgot to wear green, and had a great time with friends.
A battle to the Death: Spyderco or Kershaw?
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Nifty_Nives
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CanisMajor
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This probably won't go over too well, considering shiny footprints and all. Besides, it is a "Spyderco" forum, I wonder which will win?
That being said, I love Peanut Butter & Jelly.
Canis
That being said, I love Peanut Butter & Jelly.
Canis
Dare. Risk. Dream.
"Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so."
- Modest Mouse "Ocean Breathes Salty"
"Your body may be gone, I'm gonna carry you in.
In my head, in my heart, in my soul.
And maybe we'll get lucky and we'll both live again.
Well I don't know. I don't know. I don't know. Don't think so."
- Modest Mouse "Ocean Breathes Salty"
This subject has plenty of time on bladeforums, it just comes around every month or so. I would take a look on there- through the past posts in general discussion. Many spyderco vs. ? threads. I give my vote for Spyderco of course! Just more appealing to my taste I guess. Both companies make good knives, I dont think there is much argument there.
I've owned a few kershaws and own a few more spydies. Thought kershaw used that Swedish steel in their blades instead of 440 then again the description says the blade and handles are 420. Also the tungsten is the coating on the handle not what the handles are made of. I personally have stopped using assisted opening knives for the most part. Had a tension bar break before and i just don't see the point anymore. I'd take a thumbstub over assisted opening anyday of the week. Spyderhole would be prefered. Kershaw does make some qaulity products though. After all spyderco and kershaw did make the SPYKER. Kershaw is also starting to up the ante by offering S30V in more of their regular production knives. Spyderco also offers S30V in their production knives. Honestly two of the best companies in America if you ask me. This is all opinion of course and everyone has one of those. I say let your buddy have his kershaw and you keep your spyderco.
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Kuolema
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That there Kershaw Leek (exact one too, CE) was one of the first knives I ever purchased.
It was well... Assisted open, while legal, is so iffy it's actually not worth carrying. The serrations were great though... The blade was weak though, dulled pretty fast (though I was using it for rough work, the Tenacious blew it out of the water performance wise, and I paid 90$ CAD for that Leek).
And frankly, it's just too small to be really useful as an EDC, unless your only EDC tasks are opening mail. It's a good knife, but the Pac wins out... For me, at least, because it's far more capable of doing what I need it to.
The Leek is a good gentlemanly knife... But even then, I'll stick with something like the Persian.
And in the end, AO knives are just not worth the hassel. The Spyderhole deploys just as fast, and is, imho, a lot safer.
Just my .02$
It was well... Assisted open, while legal, is so iffy it's actually not worth carrying. The serrations were great though... The blade was weak though, dulled pretty fast (though I was using it for rough work, the Tenacious blew it out of the water performance wise, and I paid 90$ CAD for that Leek).
And frankly, it's just too small to be really useful as an EDC, unless your only EDC tasks are opening mail. It's a good knife, but the Pac wins out... For me, at least, because it's far more capable of doing what I need it to.
The Leek is a good gentlemanly knife... But even then, I'll stick with something like the Persian.
And in the end, AO knives are just not worth the hassel. The Spyderhole deploys just as fast, and is, imho, a lot safer.
Just my .02$
may it not be tricksy
I think Kershaw's quality is much better than Spyderco's, but Spyderco has much, much better knife designs.
Im not good at sharpening, even with a sharpmaker. How get your blade good can your blade with an edge pro system? - Bladeforums user
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? - Some Online Meme
Has anyone really been far even as decided to use even go want to do look more like? - Some Online Meme
+ 1 to what VashHash has posted about Spyderco and Kershaw being great American companies. That must be an older Leek, I believe Kershaw has replaced 440 with Sandvik 13C26. They are offering more premium steels.
Spyderco is my favorite, but also like some of what Kershaw has to offer. Ive had a ZT350 and I have a CPM D2 Leek on the way.
Spyderco is my favorite, but also like some of what Kershaw has to offer. Ive had a ZT350 and I have a CPM D2 Leek on the way.
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SaturnNyne
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Meh, no death battles, totally a matter of priorities and preferences. I've recommended friends look at Kershaw simply because build is good and you can get some of them really cheap. If someone doesn't have a serious interest in knives, there's not much point in trying to push on them only what I like for twice as much as something that will work just fine for them; they're just not looking to make that kind of purchase and it's not my place to bend them to my taste. Of course I also point out what they could get from Spyderco for about the same or "just a little bit more..." and the benefits they'd get by going that route, including the benefit of supporting a very admirable and ethical company. The response to that angle is usually quite positive. That said, I have some experience with Kershaws and got tired of them pretty quickly. The assisted opening was a nice gimmick and selling point, but actually using it every day got very annoying for me.
These comparison points don't seem very relevant, they seem to mostly point out ways in which the knives are basically the same or equal, or inconsequentially different. I agree with the opinion that the Pacific is a better knife because it is, in my experience, better at the job of being-a-knife, as opposed to, say, the jobs of being-carried-in-a-pocket or being-shiny-and-impressive-looking. Still, it also costs more and has disadvantages that may be very significant for some.
If you want to discuss the merits of competing knives with a friend, I recommend not wasting time quoting specs from the sales literature in the hope that something in there will prove your chosen pony "better." Instead, acknowledge that his knife is cheaper and that that is a valid advantage, at least so long as it still provides everything required of it; concede that a Leek is much smaller and easier to carry than a Pacific for most; and maybe point out that its style of lock may be preferable to many who don't like backlocks. With that on the table, move on to explaining the advantages of the Pacific, such as, in my opinion, the better ergonomics, better grip, more ambidextrous unlocking (since you both put forth lefty-friendliness as a pro in other areas), etc. And of course do talk about the corrosion proof nature of H1, but be careful not to make it sound like it's a vital feature for everyone to have and it renders everything else obsolete. It'd also help to give some examples of how you find it useful, such as the ease of washing it off after a certain cutting task and not having to worry about drying it out and oiling it. A "virtually maintenance-free" knife is pretty cool, but a "rust-proof" knife doesn't have a clear advantage over another knife that's already, as far as most users will experience, also rust-proof. Then, after an open-minded and even-handed discussion of what each contestant has going for it, you can smile (like this > :) ), shake hands, and both depart with, hopefully, a better understanding of why you made the choice you did, why they made the choice they did, and why both are different but still valid choices for different people. Or, maybe he'll appreciate the positive attributes you present and decide there's something to this opening hole and FRN business once it's presented clearly. Who knows, not really important, the important thing is to be honest and fair and not try to justify your own decision by belittling someone else's, especially if you can't really come up with solid reasons why your decision was objectively superior.
Just my quick and rambly thoughts on the matter.
I tried to give you more of the kind of consideration of both sides that you asked for, since most here are reluctant to go into it. And rightly so I guess, it's been done to death and it's difficult to keep it on an even keel.
Having the standard, basic steel of entry level knives is one of the points in its favor?Nifty_Nives wrote:Reasons he thinks its great:
. . .
-440 Stainless blade + 410 stainless handles
That's not an advantage it has over many competing knives, Spyderco or otherwise. Standard features in today's market.Nifty_Nives wrote:-Ambidextrous open and clip
Regular stainless steel (like that cheap 440) pretty much never rusts in the normal usage of most people, so it's not really a big selling point in a low end "pissing contest" style comparison like this to just say that your more expensive steel has the largely academic advantage of being even more unrustable. Need to justify why and when that advantage could matter.Nifty_Nives wrote:Just the Pacific salt for comparison:
. . .
Reasons i think its awesome:
-H1 steel never rusts, and gets harder with use
Not an advantage, both have it, along with most competitors.Nifty_Nives wrote:-Ambidextrous Clip (most have 4 way clips)
The Salts are hollow ground.Nifty_Nives wrote:-Flat grind...
:confused:Nifty_Nives wrote:-FRN is much stronger than tungsten
No it's not, it's an element.Nifty_Nives wrote:(Tungsten is a Stainless steel...
FRN is not exclusive to any one company, pretty much everyone uses it, including Kershaw; it's irrelevant to a comparison of the companies. It's a valid comparison between just these two example knives, but it's still only a matter of preference and doesn't have anything to do with which one is "better" or "the best." (On that topic, the Zing uses a very functional G10 pattern FRN; I'd call it a better knife than the Leek, as far as my preferences go.)Nifty_Nives wrote:but the FRN has a bit more "applicability" i will call it. It can be used in tons of different way, but is a lightweight handle material, and i prefer the feel...
These comparison points don't seem very relevant, they seem to mostly point out ways in which the knives are basically the same or equal, or inconsequentially different. I agree with the opinion that the Pacific is a better knife because it is, in my experience, better at the job of being-a-knife, as opposed to, say, the jobs of being-carried-in-a-pocket or being-shiny-and-impressive-looking. Still, it also costs more and has disadvantages that may be very significant for some.
If you want to discuss the merits of competing knives with a friend, I recommend not wasting time quoting specs from the sales literature in the hope that something in there will prove your chosen pony "better." Instead, acknowledge that his knife is cheaper and that that is a valid advantage, at least so long as it still provides everything required of it; concede that a Leek is much smaller and easier to carry than a Pacific for most; and maybe point out that its style of lock may be preferable to many who don't like backlocks. With that on the table, move on to explaining the advantages of the Pacific, such as, in my opinion, the better ergonomics, better grip, more ambidextrous unlocking (since you both put forth lefty-friendliness as a pro in other areas), etc. And of course do talk about the corrosion proof nature of H1, but be careful not to make it sound like it's a vital feature for everyone to have and it renders everything else obsolete. It'd also help to give some examples of how you find it useful, such as the ease of washing it off after a certain cutting task and not having to worry about drying it out and oiling it. A "virtually maintenance-free" knife is pretty cool, but a "rust-proof" knife doesn't have a clear advantage over another knife that's already, as far as most users will experience, also rust-proof. Then, after an open-minded and even-handed discussion of what each contestant has going for it, you can smile (like this > :) ), shake hands, and both depart with, hopefully, a better understanding of why you made the choice you did, why they made the choice they did, and why both are different but still valid choices for different people. Or, maybe he'll appreciate the positive attributes you present and decide there's something to this opening hole and FRN business once it's presented clearly. Who knows, not really important, the important thing is to be honest and fair and not try to justify your own decision by belittling someone else's, especially if you can't really come up with solid reasons why your decision was objectively superior.
Just my quick and rambly thoughts on the matter.
I tried to give you more of the kind of consideration of both sides that you asked for, since most here are reluctant to go into it. And rightly so I guess, it's been done to death and it's difficult to keep it on an even keel.That's precisely what I did!Nifty_Nives wrote:As for today, Happy St. Patricks day, and enjoy your corned beef you silly buffoons.
I pretty much agree with all of that. And that's what I found today when I went to make myself a sandwich, no bread. I was heartbroken. Speaking of peanut butter and knives, in a battle to the death I think the winner might be Rachael Ray. I saw in the knifecenter newsletter a while back that she'd come out with a picnic knife shaped just right for reaching under the lip of peanut butter jars. I commented to a friend, leave it to a bunch of male collectors to design knives and you end up with jewel encrusted steel jewelry and dangerous shelf decorations for hundreds of dollars, but bring in Rachael Ray and you get a brilliantly functional knife that does what most can't for about $8. :DMCM wrote:Many gravitate here over time.
To me, no contest..... no comment.
Just give it some time.
No PBJ Today....... Its a Holiday!
For the last couple years, Kershaw has gone from using medicore steel in older models to exortic steel in the latest models. They have CPMD2 laminated with 154CM, also have ZDP-189, SG2 top end models. I like their flipper Zing, works wonderfully yet simple design.
AO on the other hand, which is a complete fail nothing but a hype. I had 2 springs weaken within a couple weeks and in order to keep the blades from cutting into my thigh or waist I have to put the safety on, which makes AO blades the absolutely the SLOWEST opening knives out of any kind on the market.
The new entry level Chinese made line up has superb quality and can go hand in hand with Persistence and Tenacious in terms of quality and value.
Over all I haven't seen a single fitment issue with Kershaw, be it the handle, the clip, blade grind, screws, they all fit perfect, not even a hair of misalign. Spyderco on the other hand, (although I'm a complete Spyderco fan as you can see in my present sig.) has TINY fitment issues here and there (flame suit on, ready?) stripped screws (Persistence), tilted blade centering and uneven grind (half of my collection), clip paint chip (some actually likes it), misalign CF slab (my Sage 1 still NIB) and many more.
Why do I still own more Spydie than all other brands combine? Well, I like FFG, which other brands rarely have. I like the ergonomic of Spyderco, they just work better instead of sitting pretty. I like the value and I like the durability, I have yet to have a mechanical fail with all my Spydie but I have 2 Axis lock springs broken and AO failed prematurely. When I grab my spydie in the morning going to work, I know it is going to do the tasks efficiently and reliability. I'm also a steel snob and Sal gives me the opportunity to try all different kind of exortic steel with a reasonable price. Can't say the same with some other well know high end brand charging like 3-4 times of a Spydeco yet the best they give you is a S30V blade, which doesn't even perform as good as Sal's S30V.
AO on the other hand, which is a complete fail nothing but a hype. I had 2 springs weaken within a couple weeks and in order to keep the blades from cutting into my thigh or waist I have to put the safety on, which makes AO blades the absolutely the SLOWEST opening knives out of any kind on the market.
The new entry level Chinese made line up has superb quality and can go hand in hand with Persistence and Tenacious in terms of quality and value.
Over all I haven't seen a single fitment issue with Kershaw, be it the handle, the clip, blade grind, screws, they all fit perfect, not even a hair of misalign. Spyderco on the other hand, (although I'm a complete Spyderco fan as you can see in my present sig.) has TINY fitment issues here and there (flame suit on, ready?) stripped screws (Persistence), tilted blade centering and uneven grind (half of my collection), clip paint chip (some actually likes it), misalign CF slab (my Sage 1 still NIB) and many more.
Why do I still own more Spydie than all other brands combine? Well, I like FFG, which other brands rarely have. I like the ergonomic of Spyderco, they just work better instead of sitting pretty. I like the value and I like the durability, I have yet to have a mechanical fail with all my Spydie but I have 2 Axis lock springs broken and AO failed prematurely. When I grab my spydie in the morning going to work, I know it is going to do the tasks efficiently and reliability. I'm also a steel snob and Sal gives me the opportunity to try all different kind of exortic steel with a reasonable price. Can't say the same with some other well know high end brand charging like 3-4 times of a Spydeco yet the best they give you is a S30V blade, which doesn't even perform as good as Sal's S30V.
LBK3S|C52BK|C106PYL|745|943|C08CFS|C52m|C36GPBK|C10GPFG|1003UBK2|14210|C123CFP|C81FG
C28WH|1600DAM|C105|RC4S|C51GPFG|1735OR|830675|C90CF|C123TIP|CS97KMS|BRKT-CS|BRKT-MC
BRKT-LC3V|C101XHP
C28WH|1600DAM|C105|RC4S|C51GPFG|1735OR|830675|C90CF|C123TIP|CS97KMS|BRKT-CS|BRKT-MC
BRKT-LC3V|C101XHP