Regarding Fakes, Counterfeits, and Scondrels

[john row]

This appeared on the sub category about the above

SmoothOne25 suggested putting it here. BTW I did respond to SO25 there too.


"Particularly for Tazchristi, but please - I welcome any one to respond.

Does Spyderco pursue the perps now?

I've been out of circulation for awhile, but, it appears to me (IMHO) that this is still a problem more of rip offs of spydieholes, blade shapes, poor efforts at locking mechs,etc. As opposed to "professional" attempts at fooling people passing POS as real spydies. IE Stamping of "Seki Japan", "Spyderco", metal designations, etc. (patented stuff, but still not a serious attempt at counterfeiting. Just proprietary theft. Which is just as bad.

This seems to be a problem much the same as it was 10 or 12 years ago when I started buying Spyderco products. Can anyone who owns or has handled one real spydie (or Benchmade, Emerson, or other high quality products even Rolex for that matter) be fooled. I realize that people buy a lot "touch unfelt" but still a little research ...

And yes, I see that some novice could be fooled. Which IS a bad thing. I ask myself, whether that buyer who is attracted to a $6.00 look a like would spend the money for the real deal, anyway. IF there would come a time where he/she becomes enthusiastic enough to get the real thing, I believe he'll take time to research probably coming here.

Have there been any POS fakes sent in to SFO requesting warranty replacement or repair? Or even any lawsuits against Spyderco for a Fakes' failure of performance or safety?

There is no argument from me that knockoffs are bad. But it is mho that this is a "Caveat Emptor" situation. Aggravating, disgusting, but ...

Sal had a very laid back philosophy regarding this matter (or it seemed to me anyway) years ago. (As Taz refers to his outlook: PITA).

Has that changed? Spyderco / Mr Glesser gives credit / royalties to Ernie Emerson and Mr Boye, etc. He and his company have integrity, and honor.

Others don't.


Just my observations. Not arguing for or against anything. I can't remember an iota of what I used to know about Spydies. I came back to re learn and find out abut the stuff I missed.

Cheers,
John"

IF IT LOOKS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE... YADA YADA

[The Deacon]

John, by any chance have you seen the knockoff of the black UKPK. At least one member here was fooled by it. While I'm sure long term use would have revealed its inferior steel, it is visually identical except for the absence of LH clip mounting grooves. Now granted, that knife, at least for now, is the exception rather than the norm. Most "fakes" are much easier to spot. Of course there may be an even better fake of some other model out there which nobody is catching, that would be disturbing.

Also disturbing is that at least a few of the less sophisticated beginners who think they purchased a real Spyderco either get turned off on the brand when it breaks, or send it to Spyderco for service. At the least that's a nuisance for them to deal with, at worst the buyer will thing they're trying to weasel out of providing warranty service because people do not like to admit they have been fooled.

As for pursing the outfits that make the fakes, it's not really practical. If companies the size of Disney have not been able to stem the tide of fakes, one the size of Spyderco doesn't stand a chance. I think Sal's "laid back" attitude is more one of resignation to the futility of pursing legal recourse.

As individuals, we can choose to deal with companies whose ethics we applaud, refrain from dealing with those who we believe are ethically bankrupt and, if we are in a position to do so, express our opinion and request others to avoid them.

[Blerv]

I would think it's easier to be a thief than catch one.

Buyer education is IMO the best action. Quality dealers carry the real stuff and many sell at great prices. That way the legal expenses aren't passed on to the consumer.

[Toad310]

Most of this stuff comes from China. It is not worth it to try and go after the people who steal others ideas, and IP.

It is almost impossible when the chinese government could care less...commies.

We have had our IP stolen, and used by people at the higest levels here in America.

[Brad S.]

Although I have no idea what Spyderco does to pursue these companys I do know the keep a tight eye on factorys that make knives for them in order to insure they arnt creating fakes on the side. I'm quite certian this has been the case in the past.

[john row]

I appreciate all of your input.

blerv got my thought exactly.

Regards the fake UKPK, I googled the previous threads here, Deacon, and read them. Is the seller still on Ebay? BTW thanks for your sites, the research is astounding.

I would definitely like to hear from Taz, Sal or someone regards how the situation (if it has come up) is handled.

And btw this is NOT any attempt at disregarding either the problem or us looking out for each other.

I would also think that a reputable Company (Spyderco) would deal with only other reputable companies. For example, I heard of Mr Glesser's establishing strong long term relationships in Seki City, etc. Ongoing close dealings. Over decades. Family to Family.

Someone mentioned China.

john

[SmoothOne25]

as said above not all fakes are so obvious i have been fooled a few times. i buy constantly and am always making sure things match, model number and sku and box and edge/color/etc.
obviously sal runs a tight ship and nothing from sfo is the issue but how do even build a fake? like start with raw material and make a bunch of them. what models are usually chosen to make fakes for? expensive models, rare, unique or just plain easy to duplicate with the right materials. the prob i have had is that the steels dont match or the clip color. see i identify a manix or mili by appearance instead of the steel. like a s30v manix....which one is that again? the cf or the blue or what...? see i say " the carbon fiber scale one" or the foilage green or etc. if you asked me what clip color is what i would be wrong most of the time. i am still a little new to the exact specifications of all models and the steel is what usually is what makes me easily "rip-off able" :mad:


i bid on ebay for a new in box cf mili and it doesnt come witht he right steel. should be bg-42 and it says vg10 (oh ****, someone bought and blade switched me:mad :) i have been burnted at least 5 or 6 times. ebay but also forums. maybe they didnt do it on purpose but by then its too late

[Slick]

Most of this stuff comes from China. It is not worth it to try and go after the people who steal others ideas, and IP.

It is almost impossible when the chinese government could care less...commies.

We have had our IP stolen, and used by people at the higest levels here in America.

Wow, that is very harsh to your run of the mill commies. Red China is no longer truely red. They are an up and coming power. They have a centrally controlled economic system that rewards economic gain at the expense of the majority of its citizens.

When we are able to steal and exploit them they will look more favorably on the concept of IP, patents and trakemarks.

[Toad310]

Ya, they are still Commies, and China is a huge threat to this country. Bigger than anything in the middle East.

[john row]

EDIT Not that anyone has so far but in response to this comment of mine now)
Umm... NO POLITICS PLEASE... TWO AND ONE HALF TRILLION (WITH A T) DOLLARS U.S. We (USA) owe them (CHINA).

This is a comment on relations between the U.S. and the World.

Maybe those lead based painted toys and maybe the Patent infringements item knockoffs being produced and GOTTEN into the country so easily it seems, isn't a fluke.

ILLUMINATI!!! roflmao (maybe...) U.S. Customs???

hah!!
John