S90V vs Duck

[Fred S]

Duck won!!!!!!!!!!

Just butchered a duck with my S90V Military, ended up with 3 small/tiny chips on the edge. Did some modest prying, but I didn't think it was too big of a deal. I guess i had the edge in the bone too far and did too much twisting/prying. Oh well, I have them so I can use them. Little bit of love with the diamond Lansky and it will be fine.

[THG]

Yikes.

[Crocodilo]

Never underestimate a duck. **** of a beast.

Some jet pilots learn this the (very) hard way.

[Jay_Ev]

Sufferin' Succotash!

[The Deacon]

Recall reading a few years back, either here or on the BF/Spyderco forum, of someone having a similar experience with either S30V or VG-10 when butchering some sort of fowl. Know AG Russell warns about using some of his hard, thin kitchen knives for such purposes.

[JD Spydo]

Recall reading a few years back, either here or on the BF/Spyderco forum, of someone having a similar experience with either S30V or VG-10 when butchering some sort of fowl. Know AG Russell warns about using some of his hard, thin kitchen knives for such purposes.

Deac if you're talking about all the platter chatter that was going on over at Bladeforums a few years back it was definitely S30V that was being heavily maligned over blade chipping. And it was mostly small chipping along the edge.

I even personally talked to 2 guys from up in Canada who I got to know fairly well that both swore to me that they had terrible chipping problems with S30V blades of different knife makers as well. Now myself I've never had that problem with S30V but I only own 4 blades with that steel. Personally I never liked S30V as good as it's predecessor 440v (S60V). My main EDC now is a 440V blade which I think is better IMO.

It makes me wonder if cold weather wasn't a factor :confused: . But on the other hand I've put my plain edged Dodo through some very rough jobs and I never had problems with it. I had heard that the CPM steels are tricky to heat treat.

But it's like I've said before and I've never seen an exception to the rule of blade steels having their high points and their low points. Every blade steel out there has it's "Achille's Heel">> in other words they all have their weak points. With ZDP it's extremely vulernable to corrosion ( found that one out the hard way :o )

But I've heard that chipping complaint with more than one of the CPM steels over the years. Just remember that a knife is a job specific tool>> it's not to be used as a prying tool, a screwdriver, a paint scrapper or even a chopping tool unless it's a very stout fixed blade with the type of steel that can tolerate that type of punishment.

[Fred S]

I don't really blame the steel, I have a pretty thin edge, maybe 25 deg inclusive. I was getting after the joints pretty good. No big deal really, everything I carry is a user and a bit of sharpening will make it every bit as good as it was.

[JD Spydo]

I don't really blame the steel, I have a pretty thin edge, maybe 25 deg inclusive. I was getting after the joints pretty good. No big deal really, everything I carry is a user and a bit of sharpening will make it every bit as good as it was.

But I tell you though Fred I'm really surprised to hear that about S90V :confused: The S90V Mili is at the very top of my list for hard to find Spyders. And I plan on EDCing one when I get it. But there are so many factors involved with steel it's hard to say what broke the camel's back in this instance.

Crucible is a top notch company in spite of their curent financial woes. But maybe there are some other factors here at play too. I'm not ruling out some very weird type of corrosion because I certainly encountered that problem with ZDP-189 a couple of years ago. But then again knife blades and especially thin edges are not to be used for prying.

And it's remotely possible there could have been some impurities in the steel itself. I could give you several examples of that but I won't bore you or the other brethren. But it appears that stainless cutlery steels as great as they are in many cases may also have some trade offs.

[The Deacon]

Deac if you're talking about all the platter chatter that was going on over at Bladeforums a few years back it was definitely S30V that was being heavily maligned over blade chipping. And it was mostly small chipping along the edge.

No JD, I was talking about a single specific case. IIRC the forumite who posted it was from somewhere in Europe, France I memory serves me correctly, but it could have been somewhere further east, or on another continent entirely. Like this case it involved the blade chipping when it stuck in bone while processing a fowl of some sort. My thought is that bird bones are just soft enough that a knife can embed in them, and just hard/fibrous enough that they can exert enough pressure on the harder, less ductile, super steels to cause chipping if the knife is twisted a bit.

[Fred S]

I am with the Deacon on this one. The duck was cooked medium rare, so the bones might have been at the perfect consistency to let a blade stick in the bone and with my lack of care popped a few bits of he edge. When I look carefully, the edge has some deformation near the chips, so I think the steel is plenty tough for proper use. 2 part solution, use the knife right, and maybe pick S30V level of steel for this job.

[JD Spydo]

I am with the Deacon on this one. The duck was cooked medium rare, so the bones might have been at the perfect consistency to let a blade stick in the bone and with my lack of care popped a few bits of he edge. When I look carefully, the edge has some deformation near the chips, so I think the steel is plenty tough for proper use. 2 part solution, use the knife right, and maybe pick S30V level of steel for this job.

This is a real puzzling anomaly needless to say. I can't tell you how many deer I have viciously chopped and boned with my two Spyderco Temperance 1 models ( SE & PE) Not to mention that grueling snapping turtle a friend of mine and myself field dressed :rolleyes: :eek: :D

Those 2 Temperance fixed blades I own have really been beat like a step-child and to this date I haven't seen so much as even a tiny indentation. But then again VG-10 got it's start in the cutlery industry by being used as an agricultural tool steel.

What's really got my head scratching is my old boss who owned the wetlands where I worked shot ducks like they were going out of style and we did all kinds of field dressing before and after cooking and never had that problem. I even dressed a couple of farm fresh chickens with my ZDP Caly Jr and again no problem. Seriously I've put some of my blades through some pretty mean treatment and the only time I've experience what you have was with some food acid corrosion cutting up many tomatoes and then putting it away and not washing it ( ZDP-189 corrodes badly not washing food acid off of it )

This has just got to be sort of a freak incident or maybe S90V needs to be double beveled or be sharpened with a convex edge. But do keep us posted on this one Fred because I'm wanting an S90V Mili for everyday usage and I want to know how not to let this happen.

[JNewell]

Given what Yab has posted about what he does with his S90V Military, it is surprising, but Paul has probably got the answer.

[Water Bug]

I am with the Deacon on this one. The duck was cooked medium rare, so the bones might have been at the perfect consistency to let a blade stick in the bone and with my lack of care popped a few bits of he edge. When I look carefully, the edge has some deformation near the chips, so I think the steel is plenty tough for proper use. 2 part solution, use the knife right, and maybe pick S30V level of steel for this job.

With a thin, 25 degree angle that you noted on the edge on your blade and a hard steel such as CPM S90V, yeah, I believe you're correct it was a matter of circumstance that the blade chipped under the efforts you used. A 40 degree finished cutting edge would probably remedy the situation for the same use.

By the way, you and the CPM S90V actually won... the duck is dinner. :)

[ChapmanPreferred]

I have never processed a duck. I have carried and used an S90V Military for over a year and have used it to cut some nasty gritty stuff. The one thing that stood out was the bulk sand blast media delivery hose used to pump sand out of tanker vehicles into media storage containers. We needed to take the fitting off of the old hose, clean it up and install it into a new hose. At the time, my boss tried a Leatherman Wave PE blade first which he was unable to pierce the exterior of the hose and then stood up to go get a recipricating saw. I said, would you like me to cut it? He said, I do not want you to ruin that pretty knife. I assured him that it would be just fine. The hose was a little on the gummy side on the interior but the exterior was pretty weathered, dry and hard. The Military did a better job then I could have asked for since when it got through the other side it surprised me a little and got into the dirt/gravel of the parking lot. :)

I hope the duck was very yummy Fred S. That is an excellent tool you have!

Regards,

Doug

[Fred S]

I tried to get some shots of the damage, but my camera sucks at close up. I have cut all kinds of stuff with this knife and never had a bit of trouble. Partially cooked duck bones and some prying don't mix

[JD Spydo]

I tried to get some shots of the damage, but my camera sucks at close up. I have cut all kinds of stuff with this knife and never had a bit of trouble. Partially cooked duck bones and some prying don't mix

That is what's driving me bunkers over all of this. I've field dressed all kinds of Ducks, Turkeys, Quail, domestic chickens ect, ect. And it's been my experience that bones on any type of fowl are not all that hard :confused: . The bones on deer and elk are much harder from what I've seen and experienced up close.

I don't know how brittle the properties of S90V steel is under stressful working conditions as I've yet to own a blade made with it. But the 2 guys I've talked to that do have a Spyder with S90V do nothing but brag about it.

Even S30V which at one time was heavily demonized for chipping>> Well I never had S30V ever chip on any of my Spyders or other 2 makes of knives I own with S30V. And I've used my PE Dodo ( which has S30V) for some pretty mean stuff over the years. And S30V is not one of my favorites either so I'm not really going to bat for it necessarily. I've still think 440V ( S60V) is better cutlery steel IMO. There's just got to be a logical explanation for this other than cooked duck bones :confused:

The last time I dressed a deer with my VG-10 Temperance 1 models I used the serrated one to cut through joints and even saw through a couple of small rib bones and after I cleaned the knife I couldn't even tell I used it. As hard and vicious as I used that knife on that job but yet I still didnt' chip either the PE Temperance or the serrated one ( I always use both of them together). I touched the serrated one up with the 701 Profiles and hit the PE version with the Sharpmaker and they were both it as good as factory new after I cleaned them and put them away. And I can't even begin to tell you how hard I've used my 2 Catcherman models but never chipped either one of them either.

IMO there's just got to be either a defect in the steel itself or you hit something other than a duck bone with it inadvertently. But keep us up to speed if you do find out anything.

[joshth09]

Ok...Im sorry. I just dont understand/believe this at all.

I breast and clean close to 200 ducks a year. Duck hunting and more importantly duck eating is my biz. But there is NO twisting No prying NO stress or any kind when you clean or process a duck. And the bones could never chip s90v(more importantly the "sternum" of the duck which is where the most of the work is done). Unless you have a faulty blade that skipped the heat treat its impossible.

You pull apart the skin over the breast...and carve out the breast. I dont see how you could possibly chip a plastic knife cleaning a duck.

If my s90v blade failed to process a duck I would be getting my money back....but from spyderco?? It just couldnt happen.

[SmoothOne25]

i never used any spydies for hunting or fishing so i didnt really read this whole thread as i dont know or have nothing to add for this particular thread but i agree with what josh stated above... a s90v chipping on a little duck bone? how big are the bones? :eek: i dont get it either. but to be honest i have no experience with it so i wouldnt know. maybe some pics, of both. the chip on the blade and the duck bone in question :D :rolleyes:

[Fred S]

Yeah, I don't know what the whole deal is here, I think I got the chips digging around in the wing-body joint. These were cooked ducks if that makes much difference. They were pretty rare. I was working on one of those fairly soft plastic cutting boards.

Anyhoo, I have resharpened, and you can just barely see the worst chip. next sharpening will have all of it gone.

[2cha]

I gave a leafstorm to a buddy this fall (his last name is Wilkins-couldn't resist). One of the guys at his hunting camp was having trouble dressing a whitetail with some monster 8" blade knife. My buddy pulled at the leafstorm, skinned and jointed the animal with the little 2 1/4 in. CPM S30V blade. He said he'd rarely seen jaws drop so fast. He, of course, attributes his success to hard earned skill. He's also now a spyderco convert. He uses the knife on a daily basis and says he still hasn't given it a sharpening