FRN Dragonfly research - need input

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sal
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FRN Dragonfly research - need input

Postby sal » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:23 pm

Hi All,

The long awaited G-10 Dragonfly is in house and going through QC. They look very nice and should be shipping shortly.

The G-10 version is a peel-ply foliage green (at least for now), has full skeletonized stainless liners, full flat grind with a swedge on the spine. It has screw construction and we've designed a shorter wire clip which is left/right tip up. It's a deep pocket clip, but the tip of the handle will stick out as we put the lanyard hole closer to the end of the handle because many like to fit the D'fly to a key ring. The clip is removable. I guess it is a Dragonfly2.

We're planning to begin the new mold for the FRN d'fly2. We're going to use the same pattern as the G-10 version, which is the same as the current model. We're planning to use the same shorter wire clip. We're planning to use the same bi-directional texturing that we're using on the newer FRN models.

We can make the model with a one piece FRN handle like the current model, or we can make the new model like the Delica with nested skeletonized stainless liners and screw construction.

I welcome, suggestions, debate, preferences and why?

thanx much.

sal

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D1omedes
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Postby D1omedes » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:30 pm

Personally, I would prefer the d'fly to be like the Delica, w nested liners and screw construction (in addition to jimping of course). I love my Spyderco knives and want to be able to clean them thoroughly if possible. The screw construction makes that possible. I also feel like drilled liners are always a plus. They add some weight but also add stability.

I feel like the Dragonfly is too big to go on a keychain. So the weight issue with the liners is not important to me. I also feel like jimping is very necessary due to the lack of a deep finger choil.

EDIT

Upon reading other user's posts, I would like to add something. Although I consider nested liners a plus, I do see how they may be overkill on the small Dragonfly. Additionally, cost is another issue with the liners and I would be willing to sacrifice liners if it would keep cost down to a reasonable level.

I still believe that screw construction and jimping are a must, however.

Those are my thoughts. Thanks for asking, Sal.

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SamMaxRay
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Postby SamMaxRay » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:39 pm

Well this probably is not commenting on what you asked for but gonna say it anyway.

D1omedes touched on it. To me the D'fly is to large for a key chain although I am sure there are those that do it. I would have preferred the clip go to the end and be more like an Urban. Maybe the lanyard hole could be under the clip???

I also agree more with D1omedes in that weight should not be an issue so why not give it that solid feel with liners.

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vito72
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Postby vito72 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:41 pm

I think i want prefer FRN model with nested skeletonized stainless steel,will increase the hardness and at same time still will be enough light to be a lightweight champion.
In other way the current model its too simply to clean and wash, with only one FRN piece.
I have experience with endura, i prefer the new model with liners i feel much more well balanced of the old one.
And what about steel handle?
Thanks for give to us the possibility of debate.

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Postby Ed Gordon » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:41 pm

I really look forward to getting the new Dragonfly2. Have been a Dragonfly fan for many years. I like the simplicity of the single piece FRN handle. It would be neat to see a new updated FRN version though. Sometimes as things get updated they get improved to the point of overdone. My favorite Spyderco is the Calypso Jr. in AUS-8 and micarta handles with no liners. It is a classic. The new Caly's are fantastic and better made...but I still like the original best.

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The Deacon
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Postby The Deacon » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:57 pm

While I know there are those who worship at the alter of screw construction, nested liners on a knife that size sounds like overkill to me. To me, a monocoque FRN handle is more than strong enough. I'd also imagine it would help keep the cost more reasonable. Is there any reason screw pivots could not be used with an unlined FRN handle? If so, that might be the best of all worlds.

As for texture, any chance of Calypso Jr style fish scale bi-directional?

And, since you've asked for preferences, I have to admit, I'm a bit disappointed the swedged spine is being retained, and that yet another small non-tactical folder has to be disfigured by the Boye dent. Was hoping perhaps both of those would have gone the way of the integral FRN clip.
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Left Hand Path
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Postby Left Hand Path » Fri Sep 11, 2009 12:59 pm

Thank you for using a wire clip AND a lanyard hole. I find it a bummer that many wire clip models like UKPK, Urban, Caly 3, etc do not have lanyard holes.

For the FRN version, I would definitely prefer the simplicity of FRN only. No need for the strength of liners on such a small knife and I like how light the D-fly is.
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Postby N. Brian Huegel » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:02 pm

DragonFly 2? As I recall, the FRN handle was changed to include a pinkie rest as part of the one-piece molded clip several years after the original was born. I guess that would make the current FRN model a DragonFly 1.5 ;)

As to your survey question, I would prefer to see a two-piece FRN molded handle with nested skeletonized stainless liners and screw construction. As the DragonFly 2 will have an ambidextrous wire clip, why not include all of the current ‘bells & whistles’ just as you have when you overhauled the Enduras and Delicas? Although the additional lock strength from nested skeletonized stainless liners is somewhat overkill for such a small knife and the screw construction (all important adjustable pivot bolt) will have some inept ELUs returning them after they reassembled them incorrectly, lost parts, or stripped threads, I believe our customers will perceive these ‘improvements’ as beneficial and will pay a slightly higher price (how much higher?) to get them.
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Postby vito72 » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:11 pm

if i think at last improvements or some new models, seem to me spyderco start to turn on nested skeletonized direction for a lot of models.

At same time i think the best way to choose one or other solution want be the final price, of course if nested liners mean double price of FRN piece definitively i want prefer one simply FRN but, if the increase with liners will be just in few $ i want prefer this last option.
Fishscale its a very nice pattern and the stretch pattern have a very nice grip and look too..

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Postby Raqudu » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:35 pm

For a knife the size of the Dragonfly, a one-piece, unlined FRN handle should be more than adequate. Whether for the pocket or a key ring, the light weight of an unlined knife, especially for a knife the size of the Dragonfly, is appealing. Mold the handle in the dark blue of the FRN ZDP Stretch and it would be the perfect watch pocket knife.
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Postby npueppke » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:39 pm

I think that the single molded FRN slab is more than adaquete. The main thing that's holding me back from the current Dragonfly is the molded clip and untextured clip side-I think I would carry a knife like this loose in my pocket, but would have to own one to know for sure. I would prefer a pivot screw but I think that the rest of the construction can be pinned.

I really like SamMaxRays idea of having lanyard holes underneath the clip, this sounds brilliant to me because most people are going to use either the clip or the lanyard hole but not both at the same time.

I think that the swedge on the Dragonfly looks really cool and adds a unique touch to the look of the knife.

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Postby alecki » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:48 pm

I would definately prefer the liners (like the frn byrd robin). Personal preference only. The extra weight really doesn't make much of a difference on a knife this small. My only real issue with the older version was the integral clip which has been addressed already. Can hardly wait.

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Postby JimP » Fri Sep 11, 2009 1:50 pm

I'd like 1 piece handle with screw pivot and lock bar for full break down. No liners for me, my larger Salts are holding up just fine without them.

I'm with Deacon, no swedge, not for looks but I like to put my thumb and fore finger on the spine and like a flat platform.

I'd also like to see the thumb ramp with out the point, my thumb always manages to end up there at some stage, just smoothed over like the UKPK.

I would like to see the blade with a little more forward belly, I find the leaf shape blade always gets too much tip involved when cutting on something. I do love the look of it though.

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Postby RIOT » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:09 pm

would steel liners make the knife more expensive ? I remember back in my younger years when I lost my Delica i had to scarifice getting the Dragonfly because i lacked funds to buy the Delica.

I wouldnt mind seeing the steel liners in the Dfly though that would be pretty cool, and that knife really needed a new clip for ages

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Postby Jay_Ev » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:14 pm

In my opinion, the best Dragonfly so far has been the one in the pic below. It has the lanyard hole for those who prefer to have it, the pocket clip provides for deep pocket carry with minimal handle being exposed and it has no Boye dent. I am also one who would prefer the liners, and hope it will be made similarly to the FRN Byrd Robin.

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Blerv
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Keep it thin!

Postby Blerv » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:25 pm

I applaud the reinvention of the Dragonfly. I like mine quite a bit but wish it had a better clip (it's FRN with the molded one) so this sounds like good news. I also like a slightly grippier FRN like the D4/E4, etc. My current Dragonfly is a very difficult 1-hand operation or at least it's quite a bit slower to manipulate.
The current FRN D'Fly is a banter weight. With steel liners I would think it wouldnt pick up more than about 2 ounces worst case which is still extremely light.

My main concern is how thick the knife will be with liners. I know there were quite a few R&D changes from the D3 to D4 but picking up a Salt model compared to my wave is seemingly a big difference. I would think there is at least 2mm of thickness added with liners at the very least.

It's unlikely to match the RIL construction of the Cricket in width but a thinner knife would be a nice belt or money clip knife. it would also be thinner in the pocket (and even thinner with a removable clip for those who don't dig clips).

If it won't add width but only cost then I'm easy either way. Of course, a 10-20% increase in MRSP is doable but a 30-40% increase is a hard sell for the non AFI's in my humble opinion.
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Postby araneae » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:28 pm

Please do not add liners. The d'fly should disappear in the pocket. Keep it light. Keep the blade as is, but add jimping. All of my d'flies have lanyards so I'll appreciate keeping the hole. The standard jimping is fine, so is the fish scale.
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Postby tomoto » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:30 pm

I'm all for having a strength in a blade, but I figure that the FRN Dfly shouldn't have steel liners. Although the added weight would be small, for those that wish the knife to 'dissapear' in the pocket or even a keychain, extra weight would be cumbersome. I would think that the 'extra strength' crowd would be satisfied with the G10 model.

So then it'd be 1. G10 Model - strength + reasonable weight - controllable EDC
2. FRN Model - lightweight, possible keychain
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Postby Fred Sanford » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:30 pm

The Deacon wrote:While I know there are those who worship at the alter of screw construction, nested liners on a knife that size sounds like overkill to me. To me, a monocoque FRN handle is more than strong enough. I'd also imagine it would help keep the cost more reasonable. Is there any reason screw pivots could not be used with an unlined FRN handle? If so, that might be the best of all worlds.

As for texture, any chance of Calypso Jr style fish scale bi-directional?

And, since you've asked for preferences, I have to admit, I'm a bit disappointed the swedged spine is being retained, and that yet another small non-tactical folder has to be disfigured by the Boye dent. Was hoping perhaps both of those would have gone the way of the integral FRN clip.
Sal,

I agree with Paul. I really love the FRN you guys use with no liners. The current FRN model would be great without a molded clip and without the Boye dent.

Make it like Paul wants and I bet it will be perfect. I also am a fan of the Calypso Jr. fish scale pattern.

I however think the swedge looks pretty.

** One piece handle, pinned construction, maybe an adjustable pivot screw, no Boye dent, no liners.**
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Postby vampyrewolf » Fri Sep 11, 2009 2:39 pm

Well, having carried a SS 'fly for 8 years now... I owned a CF 'fly for a few months and traded it off years ago due to weight (or lack thereof).

The only benefit I can see with going to something along the lines of the delica and endura would be the added weight. But is the price going to be worth it? I'd be happy with a single piece of FRN with the rivet that we currently have, simply changing the texture. Though a screw pivot is a welcome change I have had no issues with any of my riveted spydies loosening up.

Keep in mind though that I have 2 SS dragonflies and will be purchasing a g-10 when it comes out, but do not own the current FRN 'fly.
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