Hey guys, interested in getting your opinions here.
Its become habit nowdays in my area that when people are attacked by thugs with blades, the blades are no longer lill "pocket knifes" or switchblades.
They now are mostly 12 inch daggers in the same size range as the Gerber Mark II (+- 7 inch blade)
When attacked by something with that much extra reach/size I begin to wonder if a Civilian/Matriarch would be enough to defend myself properly.
I was wondering if any of you were attacked with a 12 inch blade, what would your choice of defense weapon?
Many thanx
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
What would u choose if you....
This is one case where I wouldn't consider a handgun as too much weapon to have around. If I were worried about that kind of attack, I'd probably carry a Glock or Beretta 9mm, maybe something with more stopping power if it weren't too much larger (I know that larger guns have less recoil, but we're talking concealment ability here).
Wise man say, forgiveness is divine. Remember that when your <img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=0> bites you!
Wise man say, forgiveness is divine. Remember that when your <img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=0> bites you!
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Michael Janich
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Dear MaNcEr:
I'd vote for an ASP (collapsible baton). It works with the same movements as a knife, stops very effectively by breaking bones, and is more appropriate for contact-distance conflicts. I never leave home without one.
The problem with a firearm at close range is that is where it is LEAST appropriate. Unless you have the skills to combine your shooting with effective empty-hand measures that will enable you to shoot effectively at close range, you're fooling yourself.
If you're look for something that teaches REAL close quarters shooting, check out Kelly McCann's "Combative Pistol" from Paladin Press (www.paladin-press.com). It adapts shooting techiques from street-oriented knife techniques (which Kelly picked up largely from knife expert Bob Kasper) and is the most down-and-dirty, practical information you'll find on the subject. If you can fight and shoot up close the way Kelly does, go ahead and rely on your gun. Until then, buy an ASP.
Stay safe,
I'd vote for an ASP (collapsible baton). It works with the same movements as a knife, stops very effectively by breaking bones, and is more appropriate for contact-distance conflicts. I never leave home without one.
The problem with a firearm at close range is that is where it is LEAST appropriate. Unless you have the skills to combine your shooting with effective empty-hand measures that will enable you to shoot effectively at close range, you're fooling yourself.
If you're look for something that teaches REAL close quarters shooting, check out Kelly McCann's "Combative Pistol" from Paladin Press (www.paladin-press.com). It adapts shooting techiques from street-oriented knife techniques (which Kelly picked up largely from knife expert Bob Kasper) and is the most down-and-dirty, practical information you'll find on the subject. If you can fight and shoot up close the way Kelly does, go ahead and rely on your gun. Until then, buy an ASP.
Stay safe,
My HK USP Compact .40 with 135gr JHP Cor-Bons. Velocity/Energy: 1325fps/526ft/lbs
As far as knives, a Gunting, Military or Starmate would do.
"A clever Hawk hides his claws. My <img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=0>'s only show their clips."
As far as knives, a Gunting, Military or Starmate would do.
"A clever Hawk hides his claws. My <img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=0>'s only show their clips."
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Clay Kesting
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aero_student
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A collapsible baton would be a good idea. However, I think they're illegal for anyone except law enforcement. The only site I saw them on required an agency name and precinct number, as well as a badge number and name of a superior to verify the purchase. Since I'm not a police officer, that's out, unless I can get one on the sly secondhand.
Wise man say, forgiveness is divine. Remember that when your <img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=0> bites you!
Wise man say, forgiveness is divine. Remember that when your <img src="http://www.spyderco.com/forum/spyder.gif" border=0> bites you!
Yeah, actually Im not really considering carring a firearm as yet,am looking into knives/batons, stuff that can be carried without people raising an eyeborw or without a license down here.
i like the idea of the baton.
Mr Janich, you have any fav makes or models of those batons?
Id love to hear which baton you guys carry.
Thanx a ton
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
i like the idea of the baton.
Mr Janich, you have any fav makes or models of those batons?
Id love to hear which baton you guys carry.
Thanx a ton
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
Batons can be had by non LEO at
http://www.pentagondefense.com/pentagon ... exbat.html
Kevin S. Gallagher
http://www.pentagondefense.com/pentagon ... exbat.html
Kevin S. Gallagher
First choice:cane/walking stick(I second Clay's vote).Second choice:M38 S&W Airweight Bodyguard with Glasiers & 110gr. Hydrashocks(alternating).Third choice:ASP.
But all these(indeed any weapon)are useless without the NESS brothers,the Cooper Color Code & the OODA Loop(mindset).Actually my first choice is avoidance;my second retreat.
But all these(indeed any weapon)are useless without the NESS brothers,the Cooper Color Code & the OODA Loop(mindset).Actually my first choice is avoidance;my second retreat.
First choice:cane/walking stick(I second Clay's vote).Second choice:M38 S&W Airweight Bodyguard with Glasiers & 110gr. Hydrashocks(alternating).Third choice:ASP.
But all these(indeed any weapon)are useless without the NESS brothers,the Cooper Color Code & the OODA Loop(mindset).Actually my first choice is avoidance;my second retreat.
But all these(indeed any weapon)are useless without the NESS brothers,the Cooper Color Code & the OODA Loop(mindset).Actually my first choice is avoidance;my second retreat.
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Michael Janich
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Dear MaNcEr:
I prefer an ASP-brand 21-inch steel baton. They are actually pretty easy to find. In additon to the site listed by Gallagher (thanks, Kevin), Cutlery Shoppe (www.cutleryshoppe.com) offers them at good prices and ships just about anywhere. As for legality, many states specifically prohibit "blackjacks." They then define the blackjack as having a flexible or springy shaft. My review of the Colorado revised statutes indicates that ASPs are legal here. I suggest that anyone interested personally review the statutes for their area before accepting someone else's word. Make sure to check both state and municipal laws to be safe.
The walking stick is also an excellent weapon and a great choice in such a situation. Because of its size, you need to make the commitment to carry it on a regular basis, but if you've got it when you need it, you're in good shape.
As for all the recommended guns/calibers/loads, I certainly respect everyone's right to choose a preference. However, NO handgun is a 100 percent solution to providing stopping power. Given the time and a choice, even the most passionate handgun shooter will opt for a rifle or shotgun before going into a gunfight because they are more reliable stoppers.
With this in mind, if a handgun won't stop someone reliably when you have the luxury of distance (the true advantage of a projectile weapon), it won't do much better at arm's length when you're aim is spoiled by someone trying to skewer you with a knife.
Again, if you're going to count on a gun to solve problems like this, you need to do two things: 1) Actually carry a gun all the time, and 2) Practice shooting tactics that work at close range against animated attackers.
I don't mean any disrespect here, but I've run into scores of people (including law enforcement officers) who, when exposed to realistic knife training, offhandedly commented, "Well' I'd just shoot you." However, when pressed concerning their actual carry habits, most of the generic gun guys didn't carry on a regular basis (or at all) and most of the LEOs had no real proficiency shooting effectively up close.
An attacker armed with a big knife is definitely dangerous. However, unrealistic theories spouted by complacent people who don't train or practice what they preach are even more deadly.
Train hard, be smart, stay safe,
mike j
I prefer an ASP-brand 21-inch steel baton. They are actually pretty easy to find. In additon to the site listed by Gallagher (thanks, Kevin), Cutlery Shoppe (www.cutleryshoppe.com) offers them at good prices and ships just about anywhere. As for legality, many states specifically prohibit "blackjacks." They then define the blackjack as having a flexible or springy shaft. My review of the Colorado revised statutes indicates that ASPs are legal here. I suggest that anyone interested personally review the statutes for their area before accepting someone else's word. Make sure to check both state and municipal laws to be safe.
The walking stick is also an excellent weapon and a great choice in such a situation. Because of its size, you need to make the commitment to carry it on a regular basis, but if you've got it when you need it, you're in good shape.
As for all the recommended guns/calibers/loads, I certainly respect everyone's right to choose a preference. However, NO handgun is a 100 percent solution to providing stopping power. Given the time and a choice, even the most passionate handgun shooter will opt for a rifle or shotgun before going into a gunfight because they are more reliable stoppers.
With this in mind, if a handgun won't stop someone reliably when you have the luxury of distance (the true advantage of a projectile weapon), it won't do much better at arm's length when you're aim is spoiled by someone trying to skewer you with a knife.
Again, if you're going to count on a gun to solve problems like this, you need to do two things: 1) Actually carry a gun all the time, and 2) Practice shooting tactics that work at close range against animated attackers.
I don't mean any disrespect here, but I've run into scores of people (including law enforcement officers) who, when exposed to realistic knife training, offhandedly commented, "Well' I'd just shoot you." However, when pressed concerning their actual carry habits, most of the generic gun guys didn't carry on a regular basis (or at all) and most of the LEOs had no real proficiency shooting effectively up close.
An attacker armed with a big knife is definitely dangerous. However, unrealistic theories spouted by complacent people who don't train or practice what they preach are even more deadly.
Train hard, be smart, stay safe,
mike j
I think the cane/walking stick would be my first choice (I too prefer Rattan) where possible. I would back that up with a Monadnock AutoLock baton. I have 4 ASPs (including my issue one) but I have grown fond of the AutoLock because it locks mechanically instead of by friction. Also you can hold down the release button and pull it open and closed briskly. In the dark it sounds just like a pump shotgun.
A few years ago my training partner and I went to an expandable baton instructor course. The weekend after we returned a kid pulled a knife on my partner. He broke the kid's hand with his baton. When the parents went into the PD to complain, the chief had to explain to them how lucky the boy was that he attacked that particular officer. Any other officer would have shot him. End of complaint!
...but I am arm'd, And dangers are to me indifferent.
Edited by - GlockDoc on 3/2/2002 8:14:57 PM
A few years ago my training partner and I went to an expandable baton instructor course. The weekend after we returned a kid pulled a knife on my partner. He broke the kid's hand with his baton. When the parents went into the PD to complain, the chief had to explain to them how lucky the boy was that he attacked that particular officer. Any other officer would have shot him. End of complaint!
...but I am arm'd, And dangers are to me indifferent.
Edited by - GlockDoc on 3/2/2002 8:14:57 PM
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vampyrewolf
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ASP, as thats the best(legal) option for desense without a blade up here. I'd carry and practice with a Glock if I could, simply as a secondary option.
ASPs are available up here at Cutting Edge(Swords.ca) for a good price. I plan to pick a 16" up this summer for my biking as I frequently end up all over the place(including our rougher areas).
We all start with 10 fingers. Those with Spydies have 9 to spare, Still need a thumb. Good thing I still have 8 to spare...
ASPs are available up here at Cutting Edge(Swords.ca) for a good price. I plan to pick a 16" up this summer for my biking as I frequently end up all over the place(including our rougher areas).
We all start with 10 fingers. Those with Spydies have 9 to spare, Still need a thumb. Good thing I still have 8 to spare...
Gr8, thanx for all the hints guys, Ive seen my good ol supplier Pertinax (www.pertinax.co.za) sells casco ASP batons for 650 rand (abouts 60 dollors) in 16",21",24" and 26" sizes.
So when I got some cash in hand I think that would be something to go for.
If you have any other suggestions please dont hesitate to put em down here, btw I like the look of those back mounted tomahawks.
Cheers
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
So when I got some cash in hand I think that would be something to go for.
If you have any other suggestions please dont hesitate to put em down here, btw I like the look of those back mounted tomahawks.
Cheers
MaNcEr
It's Time To Kick @$$ 'N Chew Bubble Gum
If I´d meet the attacker with the bowie on my premises, a solid locked steel door and my cellular calling 911, next a 12 gauge buckshot load shotgun. If I´m on the street, my Nikes, or theoretically my 28" Kampilan/Filipino sword (would be street legal but looking a little odd), realistically some distance and pepper spray, and MY bowie (currently Matt Lamey made). If I could get a concealed carry permit, I´d take a Glock .45 and a few feet backpedaling.