Delica IV Sharpening Problems

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telemeister
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Delica IV Sharpening Problems

Postby telemeister » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:01 am

Hi All,

A bit of background first. A while ago I purchased a Delica IV to add to my :spyder: collection. When I got it I was disappointed by how incredibly blunt it was, so I basically chucked into the Spydiepac and never used it.

Today I decided to sharpen a few of my more blunt knives (including a Centofante 3 & a Poliwog). I decided to have a crack at sharpening my Delica, but it just won't sharpen (I'm using the Sharpmaker) and remains hopelessly blunt. Has anyone got any advice?

Cheers!
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Postby ozspyder » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:46 am

Hey mate, which D4 is this one? ZDP? VG10 ?

I take my knives to a Byrd Duckfoot diamond sharpener and really get that thing going :D Seems to work wonders for me. I find the Duckfoot is a much underestimated item. I'd recommend it to everyone for its simplicity in setting up (absolute NONE !) Then if you want to make it even sharper take it to the Sharpmaker.... I found the Duckfoot does all I need depending on pressure I use and which part of it I use.
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telemeister
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Postby telemeister » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:48 am

Thanks Dan,

Its the VG-10 Delica. I am using the sharpmaker and I can get scary sharp edges on all my knives but the Delica.
Top :spyder:s : Caly 3, Stretch, Millie, Manix 2, Police, Kopa, Polliwog, Meerkat, Chinook III, and SuperHawk.
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Postby ozspyder » Sun Feb 15, 2009 12:53 am

That's odd ? hmmmm, anyone else have this issue? If you have a fine diamond rod etc. I would recommend that maybe you can use it to get 'started' on the D4. Thereafter maybe it'd be easier ?? not sure why this would be the case unless you got super VG10 :D

To be honest since I discovered the Duckfoot ( a prize I won for my contributions to a forum :) ) I have neverlooked back and only use the Sharpmaker to touch up.

Good luck. Hopefully someone more intelligent or knowledgeable can give you a better explanation than I have.
Cheers
Daniel (Certified Persian & Kopa nut)
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THG
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Postby THG » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:32 am

Have you tried using a marker to make sure you're getting the edge?

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telemeister
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Postby telemeister » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:45 am

THG wrote:Have you tried using a marker to make sure you're getting the edge?
Thanks for the suggestion, I have just tried a marker and I am getting the edge. Its really bizarre because I can get other knives sharpen without a problem. Maybe its the saber grind that just doesn't like me.
Top :spyder:s : Caly 3, Stretch, Millie, Manix 2, Police, Kopa, Polliwog, Meerkat, Chinook III, and SuperHawk.
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Postby Domino » Sun Feb 15, 2009 9:47 am

This also is happening to me. I got my Delica IV (VG-10) about a month ago, and out of the box it was pretty much blunt. For the past month I've tried sharping it (stone) and have had no real luck. I've gotten it a little bit sharper, but no where near my other blades.

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DMgangl
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Postby DMgangl » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:20 pm

How often are you guys cleaning your rods.

While I have never had this problem with a Spyderco. I have sharpened a couple of coworkers knives and had to do several sessions on the stones. We have an Ultrasonic at work and I will dump them in there after the stones get really smooth. Then I will sharpen again.

The other thing to try would be taking it to the 30deg. rods.

DM
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Postby JBE » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:20 pm

Sounds like the edge angle may be a bit too obtuse and thick. Even though you're hitting the edge you may have to remove quite a bit of metal before you get it down to match the Sharpmaker's preset angles.

You might consider sending it back to Spyderco for re-sharpening with a note explaining your problem or you could always get the diamond rods for the Sharpmaker, a Duckfoot sharpener like Datan mentioned or even a diamond bench stone to take off enough steel to bring your edge angles down in a timely fashion.
Jason

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Had the same problem

Postby mr_bsii » Sun Feb 15, 2009 2:30 pm

I found that the factory edge on my delica wave was very obtuse. It took quite a bit of material removal (forget about the sharpmaker unless you're using diamond rods) to thin the back bevel enough to be able to use the sharpmaker to maintain it. Once that's done, the sharpmaker is great, and the delica is sharp.

bs

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Postby Hookpunch » Sun Feb 15, 2009 3:22 pm

Add me to the list for my Native III. I bought two, gave one to my brother for his birthday, and that one was shaving sharp out of the box. Mine is okay but not nearly as sharp, I have been trying to sharpen it on a 1000 grit waterstone and a 4000 grit polishing stone and I really can't get it as sharp as the one I gave my brother.

Maybe the VG-10 steel batch was defective.

Seems to be a somewhat common problem.
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Postby Fred Sanford » Sun Feb 15, 2009 6:04 pm

Spyderco needs to fix the grinds on the Delica and Endura. The way they come from the factory is rather disapointing. The front grind is always higher than the back grind and they are far too low on the blade.

I'm not too concerned as I quit buying the D4 because of that. I've also let Sal know about it and brought it up along with others multiple times. I realize it may take some time to fix but the D4's they let out onto the market currently are useless to me for cutting anything unless I change the edge bevel on a diamond hone right out of the box. I don't wish to do this.

Think this problem has been around a while? I do.

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=28865

http://spyderco.com/forums/showthread.php?t=32145
“I'm callin' you ugly. I could stick yo face in some dough and make some gorilla cookies.” - Fred Sanford

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Postby Mancer » Sun Feb 15, 2009 11:09 pm

That is weird, specially for VG-10 (great steel).

I had an issue many years back (in 2001 about) when I purchased a Gerber Mark II and a Gerber Guardian Backup.
The Mark II was hair popping sharp but the Guardian Back up was pathetic.
I sharpened that thing for weeks on end, it never got a decent edge to it no matter what I did, yet all my other blades had no issue.

In the end I sharpened it so much it took so much metal away I tried to back profile it to 30 degrees and then go to 40, I could never figure out what the issue was however.

I later got another Guardian Back up and never experienced the same issue.

Not saying this is or could be your case, but I thought maybe I just got a dud (as far as the metal for that batch was concerned), then again I thought the chances of that are most likely pretty slim.

Are you putting a 40 or 30 deg edge on it?, have you tried back beveling it to 30 and then putting a 40 on?

Cheers n good luck!

Sheldon
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Postby O,just,O » Mon Feb 16, 2009 2:47 am

Mate, do you know anyone close who has a Tormek grinder ? If so get him to re grind your edge to about 20 degrees :eek: NO it's :cool: then see how you like it. If not, look for one of those traveling sharpening bloke's, they have the good grinding gear & will get the job done on her. Ask at your local hardware they usually know these bloke's.
O.

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Postby telemeister » Mon Feb 16, 2009 7:15 am

Thanks for the responses, it seems I am not alone!

I have not sharpened it so much that I have removed too much of the edge. My process is the same as with all my knives, and I figure if it works on the other knives it should work on the D4 and repeating the process 12 times won't achieve anything. I use the corners of the medium grit rods - 20 times on each side, then on the flats of the medium grit - 20 times each side, then the corner of the fine grit - 20 times each side and finally the flat on the fine grit - 20 times each side. This produces an exceptionally sharp edge on all my knives with the exception of the D4 (I regularly use a VG-10 Caly 3 PE, the S30V Military SE, a Poliwog and a Lava).

I keep my stones very clean and I have tried grinding with the 30 degrees and then the 40 to no avail.

I have just pulled out my PE E4, which, again, I hardly ever use, and it seems to have a very similar problem - perhaps it is the grind that causes issues now and then? Sal et al may be able to comment on that?

Perhaps I will send it back to Spyderco to see what they think :( .

I do want to state, in no uncertain terms, that, regardless of this single issue, I am incredibly impressed with Spyderco products and will continue to collect their excellent knives!
Top :spyder:s : Caly 3, Stretch, Millie, Manix 2, Police, Kopa, Polliwog, Meerkat, Chinook III, and SuperHawk.
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Postby Domino » Mon Feb 16, 2009 10:21 am

telemeister wrote:I do want to state, in no uncertain terms, that, regardless of this single issue, I am incredibly impressed with Spyderco products and will continue to collect their excellent knives!
Yes, I agree, for this issue is practically minor compared to the quality of the knife itself.

I have managed to get a decent edge on my D4 finally, at least enough to cleanly cut paper (lol). I'll keep working at it, and if I just can't get it, it will be sent in.

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telemeister
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Postby telemeister » Mon Feb 16, 2009 9:19 pm

Well today I decided to send the knife back to Spyderco. I really hope they can fix the problem because it is a superbly designed knife and I would really like to put it to good use!
Top :spyder:s : Caly 3, Stretch, Millie, Manix 2, Police, Kopa, Polliwog, Meerkat, Chinook III, and SuperHawk.
[SIGPIC][/SIGPIC] Click the pic to see my :spyder:

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Postby jzmtl » Tue Feb 17, 2009 12:12 am

telemeister wrote:Well today I decided to send the knife back to Spyderco. I really hope they can fix the problem because it is a superbly designed knife and I would really like to put it to good use!
I really think you should've just bought a diamond stone with the postage you just paid, and reprofile the knife with it in conjuntion with sharpmaker. This way you are set up for a while and can deal with any future less than optimal factory edge.

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Postby THG » Tue Feb 17, 2009 1:55 am

telemeister wrote:Thanks for the suggestion, I have just tried a marker and I am getting the edge. Its really bizarre because I can get other knives sharpen without a problem. Maybe its the saber grind that just doesn't like me.
You know what... Today I was just touching up my D4 VG-10... For about 2 hours... When I realized that the midsection of the edge doesn't seem to be getting sharpened.

Toward the tip of the blade, the edge is EXTREMELY sharp. I look in the light, and there is no shine whatsoever, and it splits the hell out of hair. Same story with the edge towards the kick.

However, the midsection just doesn't seem to lose its shine. It looks perfectly fine, but when I do a quick strop on my pants to wipe dust off, it's as if I'm knocking down little bits of the edge; the shine comes back. So I went for another hour... Same story. Toward the tip and toward the kick: perfectly sharp. In the middle.... Shine. It's still quite sharp; I just don't understand why the shine won't go away.

Here's how I'm doing it, btw:

1. Reprofile on a DMT XC Whetstone (6"x2") with a DMT Aligner clamp guide (angle setting: 4)

2. After reprofiled, get rid of burr and deep scratches on the bevel using DMT F Whetstone (6"x2") using the same angle setting with the clamp.

3. Flip my Sharpmaker upside-down and place the white stones on, cap of the SM taken off (it happens to be the same exact height as the DMT stones). This is just to further polish the bevels; no major sharpening going on here.

4. Now for maintenance, I take the white rods and place them on the mount of my DMT stones. It's lower, so the angle is greater, and I'm putting a microbevel on the edge. And I just keep going 1-1 stroke each side. It is a microbevel, so I'm certain I'm getting the edge.

So I just don't understand why that middle part isn't losing its shine. Any suggestions?
DMgangl wrote:How often are you guys cleaning your rods.
I clean them when I see enough metal on the rods... Probably once every 20 minutes. I use 2 corners of each of the rods. I use one rod for one side of the blade, and another for the other (one at the left of the mount, the other at the right so I don't have to keep moving it). I do it for about 10 minutes for each side of the triangles, so 2 sides = 20 minutes. Then I rinse. Every so often, I use Windex to clean em good.

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telemeister
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Postby telemeister » Tue Feb 17, 2009 6:32 am

jzmtl wrote:I really think you should've just bought a diamond stone with the postage you just paid, and reprofile the knife with it in conjuntion with sharpmaker. This way you are set up for a while and can deal with any future less than optimal factory edge.
The total postage & the $US5 money order was $AUD20, I had a quick look at the place I normally buy my knives and the diamond rods are $US45, which is about $AUD70, add about $US15 shipping (another $AUD23). If the exchange rate was what it was 6 months ago (about $US0.95) then I probably would have bought the diamond rods. But given this is the only knife (of the 26 odd I own) I had trouble with, it probably wasn't worth spending an extra $65.
Top :spyder:s : Caly 3, Stretch, Millie, Manix 2, Police, Kopa, Polliwog, Meerkat, Chinook III, and SuperHawk.
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