Budget priced steel, what would you pick?

[Joshua J.]

I know it's been mentioned in the past, but I think now may be a good time to seriously consider introducing some lower cost steel types into the lineup. (I can't believe I just said that :o )

For example, look at the Barong. I'm sure it's a great design, but at $150 I'd have to really, really like it in order to justify buying one. It's a fine line to walk though, as I am a steel junky and would not want a move like this to impede on models that deserve premium steel (if the Caly 3 had never been made in ZDP-189, that would be criminal). Take something like the Superhawk. It's a great user, but too expensive for me to want to go and run it through the paces it was made for. If the Superhawk model were made with a less expensive steel and mere G-10 instead of CF, get it close to the $100 (street) price range and you'd have a great user.
If you put a new angle on it, like using a simple carbon steel, something incredibly durable but also inexpensive, that would satisfy me. That wouldn't work for sea fairing people though, most people would probably rather have more corrosion resistance than uber toughness. H-1 would be a great, except that it doesn't qualify for the "inexpensive" part of the equation.

We're looking for something that's not an ordinary "low grade" steel, I shudder at the thought of a 420j2 Military. This stuff needs to be good at what it does, not just cheaper. My vote goes to S-7 if at all possible (that might even make the Chinook III worth picking up again), and 12C27 at a nice high Rc for the stainless end, something you could sharpen down to seven degrees per side and use for slicing tomatoes molecule by molecule.
It would be really cool if Sal could work with Crucible on some new steel type that gives high corrosion resistance and really high (like Rc 65) hardness, but that's just dreaming.

So, if you were willing to sacrifice some of the qualities of S30V or VG-10 in trade for a lower price point, which steel type do you think would be best? What characteristics would you prefer to have in trade for the loss of wear resistance?

[gac]

I'm a novice on steels. For lower budget knives I am more inclined to pick up a Byrd anyway.

[The Deacon]

I guess it would be a case of needing to know both the difference in price and the difference in basic charateristics (rust resistance, edge holding, ease of sharpening) before one could make an informed decision on this. How much of a role does steel play in the MSRP of a given Spyderco model. Using the Military, and the steels you mentioned, how much would using S-7, or 420J2 for that matter, lower the price.

[suedeface]

I'd be just fine if they used AUS-8. I've had a lot of knives with this steel and I think it's an excellent steel for the price. Also 440C wouldn't be too bad either. I agree with the OP on the 420j2, that stuff should be reserved for fantasy wall hanger swords and gas station knives.

[jzmtl]

I don't think it'll make that much difference really. The retail cost we pay is mostly from manufacturing, distribution, markup etc. Cheaper steel (without going down to ****** cheap steel) will lower the price for a few bucks tops.

[hickster]

I buy Spydercos because of the premium steels used. If I need a cheaper, beater for a knife, there are plenty of others out there on the market...including Byrd. But why waste pocket space on anything less than a FRN/VG-10 Endura or Delica? :p
hickster

[FLYBYU44]

There is nothing wrong with VG-10 for me, I would be happy with them using that steel on all their knives. Of my three spydies, two are VG-10 and one is H-1. H-1 is awesome too and I loved the D-2 my Paramilitary came in as well. ZDP-189 and other high-end steels aren't really my thing, most the knives that they come in are high end and I would be scared to use them.

[GoMeR]

I wish more blades were made with 1095 carbon steel, I know its not that corrosion resistant but I love it! Its durable, easy to sharpen, takes a finer edge than most stainless steels and it holds it fairly well. If its coated and cared for corrosion shouldn't really be a problem, its never been for me. Granted its not for every application but i think its a great steel!

[CombatGrappler]

I think that discussions like this are what led to the Byrd line and the Tenacious. Spyderco wanted to make knives at a lower price point to be more affordable to more ELUs. It is understandable that they didn't "water down" their main line. When General Motors wanted to sell more cars, they didn't think of ways to cheapen the Corvette. They came out with the Geo Metro.

[clovisc]

I know it's been mentioned in the past, but I think now may be a good time to seriously consider introducing some lower cost steel types into the lineup. (I can't believe I just said that :o )

sounds like it's time to get a tenacious, joshua... :D or a byrd. or a wallyworld native. seriously, spyderco already puts out some of the best values on the market!

they've also done an amazing job of increasing "high end" options at the same time as increasing "value" options.

i buy spydies because of the great steels, materials, and fit and finish. i use the spydies that use better steels -- there's a pretty substantial difference, in my opinion. H1 is worth every penny. as is VG10, S30V, carbon fiber, G10... the extra bit of awesome that goes into the fit and finish of knives like the Barong. those are all reasons i buy spydies.

I'd rather have one "nice" and more expensive knife than 3-4 lesser ones.

i think it would be a big mistake to cut back, and start using lesser steels, materials, etc. at the moment, there are other knife companies with options currently on the market that may be a better fit with what you're thinking about...

if you're interested in getting a barong, GET ONE. you will NOT regret it! just wait and save a little longer... it's worth it.

[The Mastiff]

I'm at the stage where I have more knives than I have available income. That means to buy a knife I basicly have to sell one. To make it worthwhile I need to be upgrading in some way.

Going down to the less expensive, but still good steels like Aus6a, 12C, etc. aren't really what I need. I have too many of that kind. I like the high end steels like zdp, s30, vg10, M4, etc. Hopefully in the future some more S90V, CPM D2, etc.

What I'd like to see is economy /performance knives on the order of the FRN bladed ZDP knives that Spyderco has in their line. Sal mentioned the possibility of an FRN Native 4 in S90V sometime in the future.

I can do without Carbon fibre, titanium, etc. I don't need lower performance blades though.

(Not to pick on Aus 6, or 12c actually because I have some pretty good knives in these steels)

BTW, S7 isn't real cheap. It's also not really a folding knife type steel. It is more of a large chopper knife, pry bar, anvil type steel. It's corrosion resistance is not great too.

These are just my opinions. Joe

[Joshua J.]

sounds like it's time to get a tenacious, joshua... :D

Yeah. I've been looking at that thing for a while, great design, I'd like to try the Chinese steel (just once).

What it boils down to is there's a lot of great designs I'd love to use, but don't want to spoil an investment grade knife.

[hickster]

...
What it boils down to is there's a lot of great designs I'd love to use, but don't want to spoil an investment grade knife.

I hear ya Joshua. But the great thing about Spyderco is that they make serious user knives in high-end steels that aren't made "for the safe" like many custom, high-end knife makers. Think about it, most of those collector knives may as well be made out of chrome plated pot metal. It's not like they will ever be used to cut anything. :rolleyes: What other company puts out real working knives made of the "cutting edge" (cheap pun) steels available today. No, they are not inexpensive but they are not really out of reach of anyone who values premium performance of a good tool. Imagine the premium put on quality cutting instruments back through history. If you were going to carry one knife and stake your well being on it...
hickster

[El Tigre]

I think that isn't a good idea. . I can live without carbon fiber and titanium, but I'm not willing to sacrifice quality of the steel.

"El Tigre"

[stoneman]

I've found the steel used in spydercos less expensive knives (8Cr13MoV)to be sufficient. My tenacious is probably the sharpest knife I own. My girlfriend brought her Byrd Meadowlark camping last summer. My friends were all amazed at the see-through slices of tomato that were possible with a small pocket knife.

[flyguy]

Have you tried the Byrd line yet?

Personally, I hope Spyderco keeps their line high end.

[WhiteWillie]

I'd be just fine with some decent carbon steel like 1095. Any of the tool steels would be okay with me too.

[sal]

We still need to provide a very good turn on performance. That is what we do. High performance for most included edge retention, corrosion resistance and toughness, in the best possible combination for the intended job.

We have beenconsidering lower performing steels as we'd like to offer lower priced USA made versions of the UK Pen Knife, Native and Manix2.

I really don't want to go below .8 carbon and would prefer to keep 14-15 Chrome.

sal

[Joshua J.]

I think it would be cool if Crucible could just throw another 7.5% Chromium in a batch of 3V. As long as the steel was still soft enough to stamp out you'd have one lean mean steel type. (I know, metallurgy isn't that simple, but a mid range alloy from Crucible would be ideal by my thinking.)

[The Mastiff]

We still need to provide a very good turn on performance. That is what we do. High performance for most included edge retention, corrosion resistance and toughness, in the best possible combination for the intended job.

We have beenconsidering lower performing steels as we'd like to offer lower priced USA made versions of the UK Pen Knife, Native and Manix2.

I really don't want to go below .8 carbon and would prefer to keep 14-15 Chrome.

sal

I really hate hearing this as I've always bought Spyderco for performance. In fact, for a few of us I'd say Spyderco originally defined performance, especially in relation to folders, and stainless steels.

Business is business though. You have got to pay the bills at the end of the day. I understand that very well.

As long as you're not getting out of the high performance field altogether. If you can still manage a run or two of those Manix 2's in S30V ( or better), and the Native IV in a S90V sprint run and you will still keep your high performance customers happy. The Mules are a dream come true, but we still need our very high performance folders and there aren't many steels in the class you're talking about that give that, unless run at very high RC's ( like 12C, or 19C at RC62-63)

There are a lot of fairly inexpensive, high performing ingot steels that aren't stainless however. I guess the carbon steel market is a niche one, not large enough to sustain production? Joe