question is the milltary lock this weak

[Joshua J.]

There are many, many tasks that use the lock. Most common is scraping, which I would never do with the edge. Then you have all the times your knife gets stuck in something and you have to pull it out at odd angles, followed by a hard whack as the knife pops out of whatever it was stuck in.
The lock on a folding knife is a valuable safety mechanism. I have a Victorinox Soldier, I love the knife, partially because it scares me every time I close the thing. I get a thrill every time I use it, knowing that one wrong bump would send a razor into my finger.
Slipjoints are very good cutting tools, but they do require extra attention.
Just in case, I want my EDC to have a good lock that I can rely on. Some people want to know exactly how much they can rely on that lock, which is the reason for all the spine whacking and 200lb pressure tests. You don't know the limit until it's been broken, some people want to see for themselves what that limit is.

[PSU]

Why isn't it a good way to test the lock? How are you using your knife? Personally, I don't cut with the spine, so how is a test that shows that the knife can take 200lbs against the spine relevant? Sure you want a blade to stay up if you knocked the spine, but saying it can hold 200lbs or whatever just doesn't mean very much when in real life situations, the force is going to actually be going in the opposite direction.

So if force against the edge doesn't sound like a good way to test the functionality of a lock.... I'd like to know what is.

If forces were only applied to the edge of the blade then we would never need locks. The function of a lock is to prevent the blade from closing when forces are applied in the opposite direction. Off the top of my head I can think of a number of examples where forces might be inadvertently applied in this direction. How about a self-defense situation, an emergency, or simply being careless while cutting? In these instances, it would be nice to have a secure and reliable lock to prevent the sharp edge edge from closing on fingers.

[THG]

All I'm saying is that the main concern should be the direction you're actually going to be using the knife. I could care less if the spine could take 200lbs if the edge couldn't take 50.

Edge strength is 1st priority for me; spine is 2nd.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

In combat, there are many situations that arise where a good lock is very necessary, unlike using a knife simply for gardening. There have been instances where combatants have attempted to knock a knife away and hit the back of the blade, would you want your lock to fail. Its simply ludicrous to say that you shouldn't test a lock in all situations.


That knife was broken, simple. Yup, sometimes spydies break, sorry folks. Get over it, send it in, and enjoy it once you get it back.

[THG]

There have been instances where combatants have attempted to knock a knife away and hit the back of the blade, would you want your lock to fail.

A 200lb blow?

[J.B]

The linerlock of my Mili is the best linerlock I´ve handled so far. It´s indeed very well engineered and made with the curved ramp. On the other hand linerlocks lock because of friction between the ramp an the locking liner, not because of form like backlocks do. Backlocks are prone to pocket lint and linerlocks are prone to slipping.

But one thing can´t be mentioned often enough, the Mili has a kick. Even if the lock would fail in the worst case the blade would fall on the first finger with the unsharpened part named kick. This would probably not even bruise the finger.

E.g. I have seen axis lock folders fail in tests. They all have no kick or choil. If this would happen in use with the smooth action blades imagine what would happen to the first finger. That´s why I feel safer with my Mili than with my BM 806D2 (no pun intended)

JB

[KaliGman]

The most obvious answer here is that the Mili has probably been abused. It may have been defective from the factory, may have worn out, but more than likely was spine whacked, twisted, slammed and beat into submission. Several hundred kinetic openings (which are rough on a knife's lock and other parts as well) and a whole bunch of hard spine whacks (which are rough on the lock, etc.) while showing off your knife and you get a broken knife. It is designed to cut and the lock is designed to safeguard your fingers. For you firearms guys, slam away on the slide on your autoloading pistol when it is locked open on an empty magazine a few times with a mallet every now again and then complain and do a video on YouTube when your slide stop is banged up and your slide refuses to lock open. That makes about as much sense as most of these "knife lock test" videos. This video remains me of the genius who was beating the snot out of the spine on a Green Lum Chinese and complaining that it was defective rather than that he broke it. I really can't take a complaint on any knife lock seriously when the guy with the knife is spine whacking the knife on YouTube. It always makes me wonder what kind of anvil, mallet, Hummer H-2, or whatever he has dropped on the knife off camera to prove his point.

Liner locks and everything else mechanical wear over time. Everything mechanical will eventually fail. Spydercos have lifetime warranties and management and staff that live up to those warranties. If the knife has not been used to pry blocks out of the Great Pyramid, spine whacked with a 12 pound sledge, or otherwise ridiculously abused, it will be fixed and returned to its owner free of charge (well, you pay postage :) ). In fact, I know of several instances where, just to do what they felt was right or best to keep a good relationship with the customer, Spyderco personnel have fixed knives under warranty when the knives have been abused.

The bottom line is that this video should be considered completely irrelevant by anyone contemplating the purchase of a Military. As for testing a lock in an intelligent and non-destructive fashion, Steve Rice (STR) had a great tutorial over in his area over in the Maker's Section of Bladeforums. I haven't looked in awhile, but it is probably still there.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

A 200lb blow?

A parry from a rifle stock or improvised weapon such as a baton can certainly deliver force that can cause some locks to fail. Now, 200lbs is a little excessive, but in a Military knife, you have to test every instance.

[butch]

to those who dont use the spine of the blade

how bout for the spark striker rod i know i would not want to use my edge for that and you can put a good load on the spine that way
not 200LB mind you but hey im just saying

[Piercieve]

to those who dont use the spine of the blade

how bout for the spark striker rod i know i would not want to use my edge for that and you can put a good load on the spine that way
not 200LB mind you but hey im just saying

I use my little doodoo knife for that, and I do use the edge... I like big sparks. :D

[Irish Lager]

I've seen that video before. Looks to me like he opened the knife so that the lock clicks against the tang but is still sitting on the ball detent (lock is not fully engaged). It even looks like he checked to make sure it wasn't engaged all the way, and then he goes to spine-whack it.

I call fake.

I would have to agree, it didn't look like the lock was fully engaged. I also find it interesting that this is the only video this user has posted, making me think he created the account to step on toes.

But its hard to say what the story is, wasn't there so i cant be sure.
J

[Joshua J.]

In combat, there are many situations that arise where a good lock is very necessary, unlike using a knife simply for gardening. There have been instances where combatants have attempted to knock a knife away and hit the back of the blade, would you want your lock to fail. Its simply ludicrous to say that you shouldn't test a lock in all situations.


That knife was broken, simple. Yup, sometimes spydies break, sorry folks. Get over it, send it in, and enjoy it once you get it back.

A 200lb blow?

200lbs is easy, trained martial artists punch with 1000+ pounds of force. That's just a punch, swing a stick around and it'll do a lot more.
You have to remember the difference between constant pressure and a sudden shock. Impacts can give massive amounts of pressure, and that's usually the cause of lock failure.

[THG]

So... Now every knife is an SD knife?

[DFD04]

I personally am not concerned with the SD of this knife, but rather the all around use of it. I thought this debate was over if a spine whack on the tibia would unlock the knife. I would agree with the last poster, not every knife is a SD knife, in this case this knife is a tool and the lock needs to support that.

As far as 1000lbs in a punch-----really? Are we talking about foot pounds here, or am I just confused? 1000 pounds...a half ton...really?

Anyways, as not to get too far off topic, why can't people look at a knife as a tool rather than a SD item? I would say a knife like the Millie needs to stand up to HARD use, but every lock has a fail point--should every knife have a xxxxlb rating, NO! I don't think we have seen a plague of Millie failures resulting in finkers being removed.

just my $.02 from a Milly EDC guy.

[LowSpeedHighDrag]

So... Now every knife is an SD knife?

What exactly keeps you from wanting knives to be tested and stand up to the rigors of hard use, wether they are used for sd or tool it doesn't matter.

[THG]

What exactly keeps you from wanting knives to be tested and stand up to the rigors of hard use, wether they are used for sd or tool it doesn't matter.

No, no, I'm not saying that lock strength against the spine isn't important, make no mistake. My point is that the strength in the spine direction isn't of paramount importance when we're talking about locking mechanisms. Can't we agree that most of a knife's use is against the edge, and that this is where the lock strength counts most?

[A.P.F.]

I am inclined to think that the video in question is a total crock. Something was done to that knife to make the lock fail that easily, IMO.

I would be curious to know the answer to two questions-

1) In your personal experience, have you ever had a lock failure on a Military?

2) Other than the video, have you ever heard of a lock failure on a Military?

I am not saying that a lock failure on a Military is impossible, just highly unlikely, IMO.

[THG]

I am inclined to think that the video in question is a total crock. Something was done to that knife to make the lock fail that easily, IMO.

I would be curious to know the answer to two questions-

1) In your personal experience, have you ever had a lock failure on a Military?

2) Other than the video, have you ever heard of a lock failure on a Military?

I am not saying that a lock failure on a Military is impossible, just highly unlikely, IMO.

Look at the knife's position after he does the spine whack. It doesn't snap closed or anything. That means the ball detent was against the tang. I think that further validates my theory of how he got the lock to click, but only after the tang passed the detent a little and not against the actual point where the liner lock is supposed to contact.

[A.P.F.]

You know, there was something bothering me about that video and I think that I now know what it is. Note the position of the thumb on a frame that I grabbed.



Interesting, no?

[KaliGman]

Have I seen liner locks fail on quality blades? Yes. Will the Military liner lock eventually wear and fail? Yes (everything, including me, will eventually wear out). Do I think that the Military can be used as an SD knife? Yes. Have I practiced with one in that capacity? Yes. Is there a CPM-D2 Military in my left front pocket right now? Yes. Am I worried about whether it will hold up under hard use? No. Have I seen the Military and another liner lock Spyderco or two used and carried by some very hard core, high speed, low drag kind of law enforcement and kali people? Yes.