My Thoughts on The Chinese Spydies

[tomcrx]

I have a few of these and have some thoughts and questions

1. Tenacious - The best constructed sub 40$ imported folder I have ever seen. Small details like having the G-10 scales radiused to increase handle comfort. The design reminds me of a cross between the Lil'Temp and Mini-Manix. I see a lot of Sal in this design.

This is the first Spydie in a while that has 100% of the blade as usable cutting surface with no choil or ricasso. What was the thought behind this was it a design aesthetic or a manufacturing decision?

Was the name Tenacious chosen on purpose because that was your demeanor to stay competitive in the current knife market?

I have bought 4 of these from Wal-Mart to give as gifts and to show support to Spyderco with the big box retailer.

2. Sage - What else can be said. The perfect blend of the best of the Caly3 and Native. This has become my main EDC and the small details on this knife are outstanding. Radiused arc on the lock face, inset and turned stand-offs etc. I love this knife.

Are these knives assembled and fit in the U.S. or in Taiwan? Are they QC'ed in Golden before shipping?

I personally never expected to see such quality in a knife made in China. I guess I have been jaded by the acres of Frost and United you see at every gun show.

I am curious how Sal and company have ensured such good fit and finish and QC overall when other companies have not been able to.

With the Byrd line do your manfacturers have any input on the design of the knives? The early ones like the Cara-Cara and Meadowlark are correlated with the Endura and Delica. The Crow, Raven line seem to be their own beasts.

Thanks for staying competitive but not sacrificing quality or dependability

[THG]

The Sage is Taiwanese. I consider knives of Taiwan a step up from those of china...

[RIOT]

i understand spyderco trying to keep up with the cheaper side of the market but ive always known and admired spyderco knives for the japan steel and i hope they always keep making blades in seki city japan

[awlriteeden]

Are these knives assembled and fit in the U.S. or in Taiwan? Are they QC'ed in Golden before shipping?

I personally never expected to see such quality in a knife made in China. I guess I have been jaded by the acres of Frost and United you see at every gun show.

Just a gentle FYI, most Taiwanese get highly offended and/or defensive when their country is confused or associated with China. Don't mean to sound preachy or anything, but I experienced that first-hand when someone made the same mistake with my sister's husband, who is Taiwanese/Canadian :D

[Th232]

Just a gentle FYI, most Taiwanese get highly offended and/or defensive when their country is confused or associated with China. Don't mean to sound preachy or anything, but I experienced that first-hand when someone made the same mistake with my sister's husband, who is Taiwanese/Canadian :D

Seconded. Taiwan and mainland China are for all intents and purposes two separate countries. The former (aka the Republic of China) has a democratically elected government, while the People's Republic of China has... well, I figure most people know about that one.

I suspect that the different governments and influences may have something to do with the quality, but I'm not entirely sure.

[JBE]

I have a few of these and have some thoughts and questions

1. Tenacious - The best constructed sub 40$ imported folder I have ever seen. Small details like having the G-10 scales radiused to increase handle comfort. The design reminds me of a cross between the Lil'Temp and Mini-Manix. I see a lot of Sal in this design.

This is the first Spydie in a while that has 100% of the blade as usable cutting surface with no choil or ricasso. What was the thought behind this was it a design aesthetic or a manufacturing decision?

Was the name Tenacious chosen on purpose because that was your demeanor to stay competitive in the current knife market?

I have bought 4 of these from Wal-Mart to give as gifts and to show support to Spyderco with the big box retailer.

Tenacious available at Wal-Mart? Did I miss something here? :confused:

[sal]

I have a few of these and have some thoughts and questions

1. Tenacious - The best constructed sub 40$ imported folder I have ever seen. Small details like having the G-10 scales radiused to increase handle comfort. The design reminds me of a cross between the Lil'Temp and Mini-Manix. I see a lot of Sal in this design.

The Tenacious was designed by Eric and I together. More than 9 months of refinements and a number of prototypes before it was ok for production.

The lowerer cost is simply our fixed margins. We don't charge as much as the market will bear. We feel that is biting the hand that feeds you. We charge what we need to survive and try to be fair to our customer.

This is the first Spydie in a while that has 100% of the blade as usable cutting surface with no choil or ricasso. What was the thought behind this was it a design aesthetic or a manufacturing decision?

We designed the model for a particular market. This customer doesn't like choils, is very concious of blade/edge/handle ratios, likes robust knives, likes inexpensive. It was also designed to compete with another particular Chinese made knife.

Was the name Tenacious chosen on purpose because that was your demeanor to stay competitive in the current knife market?

That and to show competitors and customers that we do not "give up", at much of anything.

I have bought 4 of these from Wal-Mart to give as gifts and to show support to Spyderco with the big box retailer.

I wasn't aware that Wal-Mart carried them. They just dropped our Native due to poor sales. Did you get them from Wal-Mart on line?

2. Sage - What else can be said. The perfect blend of the best of the Caly3 and Native. This has become my main EDC and the small details on this knife are outstanding. Radiused arc on the lock face, inset and turned stand-offs etc. I love this knife.

Thanx for the kind words. The Sage was a project that had been "in-the-works" for more than a year before the first prototype. It was designed to be a synthesis between the Caly3 and the Native. We also needed a platform that could carry the many different lock versions planned. The Walker Linerlock was just the first. We're now working on a RIL (Reeve Integral Lock) version.

New engineering for each model is needed, a maker capable and interested in the "missionary work" of creating each new model with no assurance that it would be successful. There is a very high quality requirements and a partnership commitment for many years to come. We also need permission from the "creator" of the lock (or company) before we can use their name.

Are these knives assembled and fit in the U.S. or in Taiwan? Are they QC'ed in Golden before shipping?

They are made in Taiwan, we ship US steel to them.

They do their own QC in Taiwan, then QC is done again in Golden.

I personally never expected to see such quality in a knife made in China. I guess I have been jaded by the acres of Frost and United you see at every gun show.

As mentioned, while there are many similarities, China and Taiwan are quite different in cultures. 50 years of Japanese occupation greatly influenced Taiwan in many ways.

As far as the "inexpensive" China products, they will make what the producer (Spyderco, Frost, etc) wants. Some manufacturers focus on making money, some on making good knives.

I am curious how Sal and company have ensured such good fit and finish and QC overall when other companies have not been able to.

Eric and I spend a great deal of time on their factory flooors and communication is very prolific. We have to teach our makers what we want and how to achieve our requirements. Willing makers is an important part of the partnership. We also know what we want and why it works. Many knife manufacturers are not run by "knife afi's", but by businessmen that don't create their own designs.

With the Byrd line do your manfacturers have any input on the design of the knives? The early ones like the Cara-Cara and Meadowlark are correlated with the Endura and Delica. The Crow, Raven line seem to be their own beasts.

Eric and I design everything on the byrd models. Every detail, every line, every aspect of the design is created by us.

The Cara Cara "family" ( Cara Cara, Meadowlark, Robin & Finch) are dsigned to be low cost alternatives to the Spyderco models. In the "early days" we sold our knives as daily users. Now the value of the Japanese Yen and US dollar are so high that many have taken to "collecting" Spydercos. That is not their purpose, but they are now expensive compared to Chinese made knives. We needed to again serve our user market with a low cost, high value, well designed performers. The byrd brand serves that function.

Thanks for staying competitive but not sacrificing quality or dependability

Thanx much for noticing.

sal

[J Smith]

China can and does make good products,if it wasn't for them paying the workers .10 an hour and using child and prison labor I might buy more China made goods.How it is now I have to buy to many things made there I have no choice on.Items I consider to be luxury goods that should be the highest quality that I can afford I do have the choice and will not buy the ones made in China.

[tomcrx]

Thanks for all the info Sal. I can't wait to see the refinements and new products in the Sage line. I love this knife.

With the newer products in the Sage line will the shape of the blade and handle of the knife change or will it just be the lock and handle material?

I would love to see Spyderco use more micarta as a handle material.

I wasn't aware that Wal-Mart carried them. They just dropped our Native due to poor sales. Did you get them from Wal-Mart on line?

Yes they are available online. I bought them there in the hope that if they see an increased demand for them online they may start to carry them in store. May not work but does'nt hurt to try :)

[sal]

China can and does make good products,if it wasn't for them paying the workers .10 an hour and using child and prison labor I might buy more China made goods.How it is now I have to buy to many things made there I have no choice on.Items I consider to be luxury goods that should be the highest quality that I can afford I do have the choice and will not buy the ones made in China.

Hi J,

China is a very large country with a very large population. They have made tremendous improvement over the past 60 years. Far more than some other countries to be sure (consider Darfur and Zimbabwe). 60 years ago, Most in China were starving. Is there government perfect, certainly not, but they are improving and learning regularly and at a pace that they can handle.

The Chinese people have a 5000 year history. It's the people that make a country, Governments come and go. The Chinese people work hard, they love their children and they are a proud people.

There are poor areas in China, as everywhere. There are scoundrels in China, as everywhere.

While I cannot speak for China, I can tell you that our two main makers in China provide clean secure lodging for their staff and their families that live with them (some are from other parts of China and send money home).

The workers are clean and well dressed. Most have cell phones. The factories are clean. They appreciate their jobs and the opportunity to work in good conditions. They appreciate making product for Spyderco and our committment to quality and long term partnerships.

I have also been in factories where conditions were poor, dirty. But the employees still appreciated their jobs and the opportunity to work. their wages are certainly far better than we pay our illegal immigrants (but that's another another discussion). The dollar value difference makes it sound like they get low wages, but in China, a dollar is still a dollar. It's value changes when compared to other countries currencies.

There are also the poor. But they have hope for a better future.

You are a smart young man. Take a step back and look at a bigger picture. China is a better trading partner than Iran, or Chaves-usalia. With our help, they will grow as a trading partner. Their Yuan will appreciate so trade is more fair and they will try to help make the world a better place.

Certainly a brighter future than Bin Laden and his ilk are seeking.

sal

[sal]

With the newer products in the Sage line will the shape of the blade and handle of the knife change or will it just be the lock and handle material?

The pattern will remain the same. Only the lock and handle materials will change. If there are any adjustments to the shape, it will be in the "cockpit " area where the lock is housed, and that would only be to accomodate the lock.

I would love to see Spyderco use more micarta as a handle material.

We have more micarta planned. The Goddard jr, Phoenix, Temperance2 and some of the Slipits. We're using USA made micarta and shipping it.

Yes they are available online. I bought them there in the hope that if they see an increased demand for them online they may start to carry them in store. May not work but does'nt hurt to try :)

Thanx for the support.

sal

[rlw1979777]

Chaves-usalia!!! LOL!!! Thats hillarious! Now if only we could hold onto the Chrysler Building and Budweiser! Globalization seems like the devil, but noone could afford these items if they were all made here in America. Plus who wants to have Chaves or Achminejed as a trading partner.

[jzmtl]

I wasn't aware that Wal-Mart carried them. They just dropped our Native due to poor sales. Did you get them from Wal-Mart on line?

sal

The whole chain? So no more $40 s30v natives? Oh well at least I picked one up a while ago, would've gotten more if I knew they were going to drop it.

[JBE]

I'm still not finding the Tenacious on Wal-Mart's online site.... :confused:

[tomcrx]

I'm still not finding the Tenacious on Wal-Mart's online site.... :confused:

Here it is

[awlriteeden]

Hi J,

China is a very large country with a very large population. They have made tremendous improvement over the past 60 years. Far more than some other countries to be sure (consider Darfur and Zimbabwe). 60 years ago, Most in China were starving. Is there government perfect, certainly not, but they are improving and learning regularly and at a pace that they can handle.

The Chinese people have a 5000 year history. It's the people that make a country, Governments come and go. The Chinese people work hard, they love their children and they are a proud people.

There are poor areas in China, as everywhere. There are scoundrels in China, as everywhere.

While I cannot speak for China, I can tell you that our two main makers in China provide clean secure lodging for their staff and their families that live with them (some are from other parts of China and send money home).

The workers are clean and well dressed. Most have cell phones. The factories are clean. They appreciate their jobs and the opportunity to work in good conditions. They appreciate making product for Spyderco and our committment to quality and long term partnerships.

I have also been in factories where conditions were poor, dirty. But the employees still appreciated their jobs and the opportunity to work. their wages are certainly far better than we pay our illegal immigrants (but that's another another discussion). The dollar value difference makes it sound like they get low wages, but in China, a dollar is still a dollar. It's value changes when compared to other countries currencies.

There are also the poor. But they have hope for a better future.

You are a smart young man. Take a step back and look at a bigger picture. China is a better trading partner than Iran, or Chaves-usalia. With our help, they will grow as a trading partner. Their Yuan will appreciate so trade is more fair and they will try to help make the world a better place.

Certainly a brighter future than Bin Laden and his ilk are seeking.

sal

Sal, you've probably heard this countless times from many of your customers, but I'll say it again:

I support Spyderco because of your design philosophy (fuctionality over aesthetics), your dedication to your customers, and your business ethics. Balancing these is probably difficult, but you do a great job of it.

It was for those reasons that my wedding gifts to my sister and her husband who got married in May this year consisted of a pink PE Delica4 and a black PE Endura4. My sister liked the Delica for being pink and her husband loved his Endura for all the reasons that make it a great knife.

Your post quoted above shows me your willingness to go against the grain of groupthink and say what you believe needs to be said, regardless of the consequences. I think this speaks volumes of your personal ethics, which is yet another reason why I will continue to support Spyderco.

My current EDC for the forseeable future is a PE Native I, but because of your post above I will purchase a Tenacious on principle (edge type to be determined). I think some forum members viewed the introduction of the Tenacious as a step backwards due to its country of manufacture, and to be honest I shared that opinion initially.

I've always been of the opinion that every action must be viewed in the context of its reasons and circumstances. That is why I now consider the Tenacious a "landmark" Spyderco model, and definitely a step forward for Spyderco and the world.

[JBE]

Here it is

Thanks! For some reason whenever I searched Wal-Mart's site for the Tenacious I came up empty... :o

[J Smith]

You guys can buy all the China imports you want.
I will not,I think you will start seeing many more not wanting them.I guess it is nice that the Chinese have jobs that they like while so many in this country are losing theirs to these imports.I work in a field that is not affected by these imports except for the fact that so many people are out of work and that cuts sales.I have been in this field of work for 13 years and it is the worst it has ever been.I go to small cities all over and see one after another of factory sitting empty that were running strong just a few years ago.The Dell computer company that my wives aunt works for is about to move to Mexico so she will be job hunting.Only thing left around her area is min wage jobs after Dell leaves.

[A.P.F.]

I think what we are seeing in N.America, is the shift from a manufacturing based economy, to an information based economy. To be sure, there will be much wailing and gnashing of teeth, but the change is inevitable. The best thing that we can do, is learn to accept and adapt, IMO.

[RIOT]

china = junk, i cant believe our country owes them so much money that is its impossible for us to ever pay them off