Serrations: are they all the same?

[mnsp]

First of all, let me say hello to you all as I am new to this forum, and again thanks to Kristi for sorting out my account registration.

Now to my question: I have decided that my first Spyderco in 2008 - while I wait for the G10 Delica to arrive in Europe, that is - will be a fully serrated, mid-sized, FRN-handled one. At a first glance, it would look as if I'm halfway there with my choice of knife, but Spyderco being Spyderco I realized that I have no less than 4 blade shapes (Native I/III, Delica/Salt I, Rescue 79/Salt Saver and Tasman Salt), 3 different steels (VG10, SV30, H1), 4 or 5 colors (black, orange, blue, pink, yellow) and 3 or 4 handle designs to choose from.

As I was trying to decide on those variables, an insidious doubt assaulted my already confused neurons...ARE THE SERRATIONS IDENTICAL IN ALL THOSE MODELS :eek: ?

By this I mean, is the design the same and do they work equally well in the different blade shapes/steels? I recall having read something about how H1 is much better in serrated knives and how SV30 could be prone to chipping, and also how one model or other had more "agressive" serrations, etc.

Since I always carry at least 2 knives, I would probably use the serrated one for the "tough" or "dirty" jobs - reserving a plain edged one for cuts requiring precision and also for dealing with food - so H1 is high on the list because of the rust resistance, but I have no experience with it. OTOH, I do like VG10 on my PE models (Cento III and Endura Wave).

So I will stop here and let experience talk. Thanks in anticipation for your answers and Happy New Year to you all!

Rgds, Marcelo

[SimpleIsGood229]

First of all, welcome to the forum/addiction, mnsp!

If I'm not mistaken, the serrations are, for the most part, all the same among the Spydies you listed.

As for your choice of serrated Spydie, I recommend the Tasman Salt or the Harpy. The hawkbill configuration really works well with the Spyderedge. The Harpy is full SS with VG-10 blade, which holds an edge a bit better than H1. However, the extreme rust-resistant nature of H1 is very appealing. If you want FRN, your choice of these two will be the Tasman. However, you can find the Merlin (FRN Harpy, basically) with some searching. If you like tip-up, get the Tasman; tip-down, get the Harpy. I'm sure Agent Starling will be here shortly. :D

Really, though, you can't go wrong with any of the models you listed. Pick 'em up and flip 'em a few times before you buy.

[The Deacon]

I think the serration pattern will be the same, or very close to the same on them. The serrations may, however, look different between different models, depending on the thickness and grind of the blade. It stands to reason that serrations on a thinner blade, will have a somewhat different appearance than those on a thicker one, or one where the taper from full thickness to edge is more acute.

As for which knife, the are all good in their own rights, so let your primary use for it dictate which one to buy. The Salt series definitely worth considering, and if food prep is a significant part of your intended use, then I'd say to go with either the Salt I or Pacific. A bit of "belly" comes in very handy for that, so a sheepsfoot is at a disadvantage and a hawkbill is next to useless. Blade length never hurt for food prep either, so the Pacific would be my choice out of that group.

[Native Justice]

I've never been much of a SE kinda guy but recently added a couple to my rotation and now there's no looking back. With that in mind, with the added work hardening advantage that the H1 serrations have, the salt series is the first of several choices you could make ... contrary to Deacons opinion, the hawkbill Tazmanian is a terrific hard working choice if breaking down boxes and dealing with cordage or straps is part of your day to day routine. Slip it in and pull. Your done. I've used mine almost exclusively for breaking down boxes since I bought mine about six months ago and wouldn't trade it for anything. Unlike the PE, the H1SE edge lasts a very long time.

I also bought the E4 ZDP in SE and now alternate between the two of them for breaking down boxes, trimming branches for shooting lanes when hunting (as well as gardening and yard work) and any other task that would ordinarily bring a PE blade to it's knees ... have yet to really need to sharpen them yet but have maintained them on the 701 profile stones with great success.

Haven't had any broken teeth to contend with on either one and doubt that I will. These two blades are really great knives. Give 'em a look see before you buy. You won't regret having one of these in your pocket, I can guarantee it!

Happy and safe holiday season to you and yours!

NJ

[cobrajoe]

Don't worry at all about the slight difference between the :spyder: SE patterns, they all work great for the blade they are on.

I don't know if there is a certain type for each steel, but some models do have a bit more rounded teeth than others. The most notably rounded teeth of the blades I have are the Dodo and the CE flatbyrd.

[mnsp]

"It stands to reason that serrations on a thinner blade, will have a somewhat different appearance than those on a thicker one, or one where the taper from full thickness to edge is more acute", The Deacon.

Brilliant, that probably explains the differences I see in the pictures, same basic pattern applied to different grinds/blade thickness. Living in Paris I don't have much chance to see Spyderco models first-hand, there are maybe two or three shops in the area who carry them consistently, and never the full line to allow comparisons.

"The hawkbill configuration really works well with the Spyderedge", SimpleIsGood229. "the hawkbill Tazmanian is a terrific hard working choice if breaking down boxes and dealing with cordage or straps is part of your day to day routine", Native Justice.

Point taken, Tasman moves to the top of the list together with the Salt 1.

"The Salt series definitely worth considering, and if food prep is a significant part of your intended use, then I'd say to go with either the Salt I or Pacific. A bit of "belly" comes in very handy for that, so a sheepsfoot is at a disadvantage and a hawkbill is next to useless", The Deacon.

Food prep is the number one use for my knives - picnicking in France is one the great things one can do here, considering the quality of the ingredients - but I am not planning to use the serrated primarily for this, in my opinion thin PE blades excel at this, like the Cento III or an Opinel #8. Also, I'm embarking on a long-term project in Spain, and not knowing their knife laws I'd rather keep the blade size around 3".

So I'm down to two choices, Salt 1 and Tasman, and I will have a delicious New Year's Eve deciding, maybe with the help of oysters and champagne...

Best regards, Marcelo

[spydutch]

IMO the S30V serrations seem to be a bit rounder, less aggressive than the ones in VG10 or H1.

They work just as well though.

[SimpleIsGood229]

Marcelo,

If you don't plan on using SE for food prep, then yes (again :D ), I highly recommend the Tasman or Harpy.

I must say that the Centofante III would be a great choice of a knife for food prep. Have you looked at the Bill Moran FB? That, I think, would make an excellent food prep knife. It has a good amount of belly, it's full flat ground, and has no folding mechanism to get gummed up, for one. I don't know how kosher it would be as far as Paris law goes, however.

[FLYcrash]

Welcome to the forums, Marcelo!!

My Atlantic Salt SE is great for my non-food-prep tasks. That sheepsfoot blade works very hard breaking down boxes or packaging, string and rope, and plant matter in the outdoors or garden. I haven't tried a hawkbill, so I can't offer a comparison, but I can say that this knife has been more than satisfactory.

[mnsp]

Marcelo,

If you don't plan on using SE for food prep, then yes (again :D ), I highly recommend the Tasman or Harpy.

I must say that the Centofante III would be a great choice of a knife for food prep. Have you looked at the Bill Moran FB? That, I think, would make an excellent food prep knife. It has a good amount of belly, it's full flat ground, and has no folding mechanism to get gummed up, for one. I don't know how kosher it would be as far as Paris law goes, however.

I have spent some hours researching Spanish knife law (and most importantly its application) since I will be spending the next months living and working there. Found two knife forums where the topic was extensively debated. Typical to Latin countries - I should know, I was born in Brazil, have already lived and worked in Spain and Portugal and have been in France for the last 6 years - the law is excessive and its application depends on the police officer or security agent...summarizing, blades shorter than 11 cm (~ 4 1/4 inches) not belonging to the forbidden categories (automatic, gravity, daggers, etc) can be kept at home, but are classified as weapons. And carrying weapons is forbidden, unless there is a good reason to do so, at the discretion of the officer :confused: For instance when hiking, hunting, etc, or around town when you are on your way to do some work that needs a knife, or maybe going for a picnic at the park. Several comments on the Spanish forums described situations where "normal", ie, non tactical, pocket knives were confiscated because they were interpreted as being of "agressive" nature, or because no "valid" reason was accepted for carrying them - an evening in town, for instance.

Since I intend to continue carrying at least one good folder, I will have to be careful as to the model...and I can well imagine the difficulty in explaing the Tasman to a Spanish policeman: "you see Officer, this knife design evolved from the needs of fishermen to cut ropes...", "and where is your boat Sir?"...

So it would be Salt 1 or the Salt Saver - suddenly the lack of a tip begins to look attractive.

Thanks again for your suggestions, I will let you know.

Rgds, Marcelo

[dantecubit]

The S30V steel is made in Colorado, while VG10 and H1 come from Japan, so it stands to reason that the serrations would be slightly different. Also, the serrations on my D'Allara rescue seem deeper than the ones on my Endura 4. I'm not 100% sure on this one though, and my E4 is out of commission so I can't check it right now.

[SimpleIsGood229]

Marcelo,

I see. A police state! :mad:

I'm thinking a Saver Salt would look less ''weapon-like'' than the pointy Salt 1. Anyway, best of luck!

[JD Spydo]

You have to really go back quite a way through the time tunnel to have witnessed all the different serration patterns that Spyderco has used at one time or another. One member has made the observation that S30V serrations are different and that is true. The Spyders made in Seki Japan do have a serration pattern that is much more "spiky" than the ones that come from current or recent Golden CO made models. The Golden Colorado made Spyders do have a "wavy" type of serration which in my opinion have more of a slicing rather than ripping action.

But you really can't stop there because throughout time there has more or less been an evolution of Spyderco's serration patterns. You can succession of different patterns on their working knives in particular. On some of my Spyderco Catcherman models it is highly evident. The older AUS-8 Catchermans had a much different pattern with a long wavy pattern versus the later MBS-26 versions which have a pattern like the other Seki Spyders do.

Very few knife afficionados have comparatively tested the different serration patterns and their usefullness on different cutting chore applications. And I'm not limiting that to just Spyderco either. There are some other good serration patterns out there on the open market even though I do firmly believe that Spyderco is truly the leader in that market with no close second place, runner up. But I say that because we can learn from other patterns concerning all manners of cutting chores.

The rounded, more wavvy serrations tend to do well with jobs like skinning, meat cutting and cutting tough material like leather and the like. Whereas the more spiky serrations I feel make a much better self defense type blade and they also do well where you need a ripping action type of cut. Such as a guy on a commercial fishing boat who needs to rip through rope in a super quick fashion would indeed benefit from those type of serrations.

All in all Spyderco has all of those bases covered. And the predjudices I regularly hear regarding serrated blades are truly based solely on lack of knowledge along with not being aware of their capabilities.

But it's no surprise because most change is usually met with stubborn adversity based on nothing but the inability or the resistance to adapt to change. It took me a while to realize the true "tool value" of serrated cutting blades.

[Capt. Carl]

Serrations tend to really scare some people. I've had friends remark on how vicious my Salt 1 SE in yellow looks. I can't think of any mentioning of a SE cricket scaring people but thats about it...Just something to keep in mind...

[mnsp]

Marcelo,

I see. A police state! :mad:

I'm thinking a Saver Salt would look less ''weapon-like'' than the pointy Salt 1. Anyway, best of luck!

After the Madrid train bombings of 2004 the atmosphere changed in the country. 300 dead, considering the size of Spain, is more or less the same impact as 9/11 for the US. There have been some new laws created after that give more powers to the police. Not that 40 years of military rule have not left their mark as well...

But you may be right, the Saver could be easier to explain as tool than the Salt 1, though from the pictures the Salt does not look too pointy.

Marcelo

[mnsp]

...The Spyders made in Seki Japan do have a serration pattern that is much more "spiky" than the ones that come from current or recent Golden CO made models. The Golden Colorado made Spyders do have a "wavy" type of serration which in my opinion have more of a slicing rather than ripping action.

...The rounded, more wavvy serrations tend to do well with jobs like skinning, meat cutting and cutting tough material like leather and the like. Whereas the more spiky serrations I feel make a much better self defense type blade and they also do well where you need a ripping action type of cut. Such as a guy on a commercial fishing boat who needs to rip through rope in a super quick fashion would indeed benefit from those type of serrations.

...But it's no surprise because most change is usually met with stubborn adversity based on nothing but the inability or the resistance to adapt to change. It took me a while to realize the true "tool value" of serrated cutting blades.

JD, great commentary and very helpful insight on the "wavy" serrations and their use. You're absolutely right about the resistance to change, this is basically the reason I have decided to buy a serrated Spydie, because I recognized that I may be missing something.

Marcelo