VG-10, Surgical?

[bell]

I proudly whipped out my Navigator VG-10 recently to show a friend who is in metal sales, he said "oh yeah, vg-10, surgical steel". Cool, I thought.

So now I wonder, are scalpels made of VG-10, after all, the knife of surgery would seem to be the ultimate in taking an edge, and by the way, who sharpens those knives and how? Sharpmaker, hard Arkansas stone?

Inquiring minds want to know.

[cobrajoe]

I doubt that VG-10 is used as scalpels, it would cost way too much to use once and throw away.

I think it's just the term "surgical stainless" is thrown around way too much for lower end knives, (brings out the mall ninja in you when the advertising alludes to the blade's ability to cut through flesh :p )

[yablanowitz]

From what I have seen, most scalpels are basically disposable. I think Sal once posted that "Surgical Stainless Steel" was something like 320, which Sal called throwaway steel. I also recall JDSpydo posting that his boss (a doctor) wished he could get scalpels as sharp as JD's ZDP Caly Jr. I don't think many of us would be happy with their edge holding ability, either :D

[spydie fanatic]

Gerber calls their 440A steel "surgical steel"...I saw a jaguar butterfly knife with "surgical steel"

[bell]

Ok, I see. Use it once and throw it away. So there is no big premium on high quality steel and...as proven on this forum so many times...cutting flesh is pretty easy to do. Surgery then, is not a big test of either sharpness or high quality steel..... the term "surgical steel" is more marketing hype. Another mystery solved by the omnisient Spyderco Forum. Thanks. :cool:

[dedguy]

I use scalpels instead of Xactos for various hobby/art applications because the blades in general have more variety and are cheaper by far. They get dull pretty **** quick, but so do Xactos which I imagine use a similar steel.

[jaislandboy]

... the term "surgical steel" is more marketing hype....

Yes, marketing hype for the masses..... :rolleyes:

[Slatts]

If you put a 10 deg angle on any steel it will be razor sharp. Scalpels, exactos, and the razor blades in utility knives are all about the same cheap steel but they get the job done for awhile then pitch in the trash.

[JD Spydo]

From what I have seen, most scalpels are basically disposable. I think Sal once posted that "Surgical Stainless Steel" was something like 320, which Sal called throwaway steel. I also recall JDSpydo posting that his boss (a doctor) wished he could get scalpels as sharp as JD's ZDP Caly Jr. I don't think many of us would be happy with their edge holding ability, either :D

Yeah and it hasn't been too long ago that I tried to get Doc Goolsbee to get me an older, real fixed blade scalpel. He told me that they haven't even been available since probably the late 70s. He also told me that in his younger days as an Emergency Trauma Doctor that it was costing a lot of money just to have them sharpened. I would imagine since the onslaught of AIDS the DOCs are probably using everything disposable that they can use.

I must admit that I personally don't know which steel(s) that they were using for scalpels but just to make incisions in human tissue it wouldn't have had to be anything really super to do that.

The term "Surgical Stainless" has been thrown around so loosely even since I was a youngster that I don't think anyone can give you a true definition of the term. I think it's just a "catch all" term that advertisers and marketing experts use to make the steel sound like it's quality when in reality the stuff that they made scalpels with may not have had any better steel in them than your high quality kitchen/culinary knives.

[The Deacon]

The term "Surgical Stainless" has been thrown around so loosely even since I was a youngster that I don't think anyone can give you a true definition of the term. I think it's just a "catch all" term that advertisers and marketing experts use to make the steel sound like it's quality when in reality the stuff that they made scalpels with may not have had any better steel in them than your high quality kitchen/culinary knives.

Think you're right JD. Also think for that very reason, in some folks minds the terms "surgical steel" and "stainless steel" are interchangeable. Thus that person merely assumed it was stainless and that calling it "VG-10 surgical steel" was the same as calling it "VG-10 stainless steel".

[J Smith]

Just a little something I read a while back about a doctor that needed Surgery and had some blades knapped out of flint for them to use on him.He said they were much sharper and the healing time was much faster and scaring was much less.

[freeman7]

Disposable scalpel blades are very sharp, but the steel is brittle. They will snap off rather then bend when flexed to any great degree. You do not ever pry with a scalpel. Their ability to cut is, I suspect, largely helped by being very thin.
If you really want what used to be called a hard-backed scalpel, that is a non-disposable one, which is made much thicker than the disposable blades we use now, you could have one made. I would think either Jim Siska or PJ Tomes would help you out.

[bell]

Freeman brings up a good point. Just as great chefs use custom kitchen knives and are very protective of same, do great surgeons have their own set of custom (german?) scalpels in a cool little case they take into the OR? [Off topic]........Wait I hear the music of "The Hustler" and Fast Eddie is carrying his custom Balabuska in a leather case into Ames to play Fats.

[Slick]

I've always thought Surgical steel refered to any very stainless steel that would take an edge. Many of the most corrosion resistent steels are not knife steels.

If I remember correctly VG-10 is a hortocultural steel.

[lycanthought]

There is now a company making ceramic impregnated plastic scalpels - If they only have to work once, they don't even need to be steel!

[Cameron23]

Scalpel blades in the OR come in sealed individual packages that click into the handles that come with the rest of the autoclaved instruments (some handles are also disposable plastic types). It really depends on the Doc's preference.

I, too, have heard that knapped (obsidian I think) blades are sharper. But I have only heard them being used in eye surgeries. Using a knapped blade on a regular (open) surgery seems a little excessive since most surgeons are using the cutting attachment to the electrocautery tool to cut down on blood loss and mess (easier to see what one is doing).

Any item that says "surgical steel" (like previous posts) are 99.999% junk. Not even the scalpel blade packages say it. :D

Cameron

[bell]

Thanks Cameron, good stuff. Sounds like you are there.

[Ed Schempp]

VG 10 was developed for stainless grafting knives. It's ultra fine grain disrupts minimum tissue and gives a cleaner faster healing graft in the tree fruit industry...Take Care...Ed

[Simple Man]

I've always looked at "Surgical Steel" as any steel used in surgery, which can vary from the gurney to the bedpan.

[zenheretic]

Scalpel blades in the OR come in sealed individual packages that click into the handles that come with the rest of the autoclaved instruments (some handles are also disposable plastic types). It really depends on the Doc's preference.

I, too, have heard that knapped (obsidian I think) blades are sharper. But I have only heard them being used in eye surgeries. Using a knapped blade on a regular (open) surgery seems a little excessive since most surgeons are using the cutting attachment to the electrocautery tool to cut down on blood loss and mess (easier to see what one is doing).

Any item that says "surgical steel" (like previous posts) are 99.999% junk. Not even the scalpel blade packages say it. :D

Cameron

I've witnessed two surgeries so far. On both they used the electro tool for the large abdominal cuts. Once they get in for fine work, that is when they grab a scalpel.

Nothing like smelling burnt cauterized flesh to get you in the mood for a good surgery.