Why inbus (hex) heads?

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huugh
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Why inbus (hex) heads?

Postby huugh » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:54 am

I wonder, why is :spyder: using inbus head screws so often? Is it matter of any preference or just random choice?

I've had to search really hard to find imperial sized inbus set which price doesn't start at 15EUR and includes sizes under 3/16" or so (those "big box" markets offer really wide selection :rolleyes :) .

I think BM is more "user friendly" in this area - given they sell they own "Blue box" kit they use only what they have in this box i.e. Torx (and Philips).

It may not be concern for many people but why don't have similar "standard"?
There is one big disadvantage of inbus - it comes in two incompatible standards - ISO and ANSI/ASME (while there is only one (ISO) standard for Torx).


(then there is different threading but one doesn't need new screws so often, does he? :) )

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Fred Sanford
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Postby Fred Sanford » Tue Jul 31, 2007 1:51 pm

Not sure what you mean by inbus.

Do you mean the Star (Torx) or Hex (Allen)?

I did notice that the Military that I just got has a Hex (Allen) head on it. All of the other Spydies I have use star (Torx) heads. I wonder if they just recently changed to Allen heads on the pivots?

Personally I think Torx heads stink and they strip to easily. Hex heads, Triangle heads, and square heads work better. Phillips also strip to easily.

I used to like Torx heads but as of late the Torx drivers and also the Torx head screws are having a lot of play between them. I don't know if this is due to QC on the screw heads or on the driver or both.
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Postby Chucula » Tue Jul 31, 2007 3:49 pm

I personally prefer hex over most screw heads. As David said, they strip much less often.
I would like if Spyderco offered Allen wrenches or something for easy maintenance.

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Postby huugh » Tue Jul 31, 2007 11:33 pm

Inbus=hex=allen head

Phillips is really bad option.

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zenheretic
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Postby zenheretic » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:16 am

If a knife is built to never be taken apart, it has none of these worries. :D
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Postby huugh » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:07 am

zenheretic wrote:If a knife is built to never be taken apart, it has none of these worries. :D
But it has other worries - e.g. non adjustable pivot may be one of them :)

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Postby zenheretic » Wed Aug 01, 2007 2:39 am

huugh wrote:But it has other worries - e.g. non adjustable pivot may be one of them :)
Some lock systems don't need adjustable pivots, 30+ years of lock backs show that to be true.

Keep in mind my screwless comment wasn't really aimed at you, Huugh. I'm on a crusade against screws. The pendulum will swing back to screwless designs, once everyone who likes full screw designs realizes they have a screw loose.
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Postby giant1 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:02 am

I have to agree that torx screws are a problem. I have not been able to find the correct size torx head for my delica clip which I want to change around.

I think it would be better to use (hex) allen head screws as the allen keys are much easier to buy regardless of whether you need imperial or metric.
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Postby The Deacon » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:07 am

zenheretic wrote:Some lock systems don't need adjustable pivots, 30+ years of lock backs show that to be true.

Keep in mind my screwless comment wasn't really aimed at you, Huugh. I'm on a crusade against screws. The pendulum will swing back to screwless designs, once everyone who likes full screw designs realizes they have a screw loose.
Zen, if this place supported "rep points" I'd be sending you a green chiclet instead of typing this. :D :D :D

Personally, when it comes to screws, I think the quality of the screw and the quality and fit of the driver are far more important than the head type, especially with small screws.
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zenheretic
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Postby zenheretic » Wed Aug 01, 2007 4:23 am

The Deacon wrote:Zen, if this place supported "rep points" I'd be sending you a green chiclet instead of typing this. :D :D :D
Ahh good, all my red chiclets needed a friend. :eek: :D
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Fred Sanford
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Postby Fred Sanford » Wed Aug 01, 2007 6:54 am

The Deacon wrote:Zen, if this place supported "rep points" I'd be sending you a green chiclet instead of typing this. :D :D :D

Personally, when it comes to screws, I think the quality of the screw and the quality and fit of the driver are far more important than the head type, especially with small screws.
I agree.

As of late, I've had so many problems with the T6 Torx driver not fitting the screws. It doesn't matter whether I use Craftsman, Husky, Kobalt, or other brands, the driver is always loose fitting in the Torx screw. Now the T9 Torx that my Para has on the Pivot is freakin' perfect. There is no play at all when the driver is in the screw head. The T6 screws however are not.

I'm guessing since I have used many different drivers that it's the problem of the screw heads. In fact, I just sent one of my Para's into Spyderco because I couldn't get one of the handle screws out. The screw stripped before I even got it out. I always take the screws out one by one and put a little Loctite on them.

Yeah......I know.......too much information. :)
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224477
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Postby 224477 » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:06 am

David Lowry wrote:Not sure what you mean by inbus.

Do you mean the Star (Torx) or Hex (Allen)?
David,

huugh means Allen or Hex type screw, they are called "inbus" or "imbus" here within Czech and Slovak..
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Postby dialex » Wed Aug 01, 2007 7:44 am

David Lowry wrote:
I did notice that the Military that I just got has a Hex (Allen) head on it.
I use a Torx (no. 10 IIRC) on it and it works fine. :o
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dedguy
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Postby dedguy » Wed Aug 01, 2007 8:28 am

It would seem to me that Allen/Hex would be the more widly used type of screw head. I don't know anyone who doesn't have piles of Allen wrenches in a variety of sizes. I also don't know anyone who has any Torx drivers.
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huugh
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Postby huugh » Wed Aug 01, 2007 9:00 am

dedguy wrote:It would seem to me that Allen/Hex would be the more widly used type of screw head. I don't know anyone who doesn't have piles of Allen wrenches in a variety of sizes. I also don't know anyone who has any Torx drivers.
IMHO it's easier to find smaller Torx than smaller Inbus (hex) drivers (especially in both standards).

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The CoPilot
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Postby The CoPilot » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:22 am

Here's some interesting trivia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Allen_wrench
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Postby N. Brian Huegel » Wed Aug 01, 2007 10:50 am

Torx fasteners are superior. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_10664

We have always had success using Wiha (http://www.wihatools.com or http://www.wiha-wuppertal.de) bits, drivers, and systems.

You are buying/using Spyderco, one of the best knives made in the world; why not use the best tools to maintain them.

"The Recollection of Quality Remains Long After the Price is Forgotten" used by several prominent 19th and early 20th C. retailers, most notably E.C. Simmons Hardware Co. of St. Louis, Missouri, who marketed their wares under the brand name "Keen Kutter".

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Postby fellyjr » Wed Aug 01, 2007 11:04 am

Brian, I am going to have to go out and get me a hexalobular internal driving feature to take apart my Spydies. Thanks for the link! ;) :cool:

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Fred Sanford
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Postby Fred Sanford » Wed Aug 01, 2007 12:00 pm

dialex wrote:I use a Torx (no. 10 IIRC) on it and it works fine. :o

Hey Alex. I also use the Torx T10 for my Para-Military. I thought maybe Spyderco was changing over to Allen heads on some of the newer models. I have no idea though. ]Torx fasteners are superior. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ISO_10664

We have always had success using Wiha (http://www.wihatools.com or http://www.wiha-wuppertal.de) bits, drivers, and systems.

You are buying/using Spyderco, one of the best knives made in the world; why not use the best tools to maintain them.

"The Recollection of Quality Remains Long After the Price is Forgotten" used by several prominent 19th and early 20th C. retailers, most notably E.C. Simmons Hardware Co. of St. Louis, Missouri, who marketed their wares under the brand name "Keen Kutter".

“Quality is never an accident; it is always the result of intelligent effort.” John Ruskin[/QUOTE]


Thanks for that N. Brian Huegel! I plan on actually going out and buying the Wiha drivers now. I have no problem paying more money for a good tool. I appreciate the links.
“I'm callin' you ugly. I could stick yo face in some dough and make some gorilla cookies.” - Fred Sanford


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