Native origins

[The CoPilot]

I've been searching the forum and the forum archives for information on how Sal developed the C41 Native and I haven't been able to come up with a whole lot. As a major fan of this design, I'd be very interested in hearing his thoughts on what the design intent was and how the design evolved into the model that we know and love today. Whaddya say, Sal? Please.....

[ozspyder]

Yes, another big Native fan here too. I'm curious to know. Is it a 'design in the dark' thing as well as I assume most are. Or was there some other factors governing the design (aside from the usual ergos thing) and the naming of the design as well.

I'm going to have a punt and say Sal designed it cos it looked cool !, it cut well, and it sits in the hand well :D .... don't know if that is correct, and definitely don't know the origins.

Anyone?

[ChapmanPreferred]

There is a section in "the Spyderco Story" that talks about the native design. My copy is currently unavailable. Anyone out there have a copy handy?

[ghostrider]

There is a section in "the Spyderco Story" that talks about the native design. My copy is currently unavailable. Anyone out there have a copy handy?

You could also look on The Deacon's site. Pretty sure he has the info there.

[The CoPilot]

I've read what info Paul has on his site, and it's good, but as "outsiders", all we can do is speculate on the motivations, thoughts, and intentions behind the design. Only Sal can speak to those, and I'm hopeful that he will.

[The CoPilot]

:spyder: Bump :spyder:

[LJK]

Another huge Native fan here ( just got a SE black blade so cool looking) I have always wondered myself what Sal and Crew were thinking when they designed this great knife. The name fits the knife perfectly. It would be great to have more info.

[Ookami]

According to The Spyderco Story the Native was the first :spyder: to be produced in the US of A, hence the name.

I also read somewhere, that part of the money you pay for the knife goes to a Native American educational fund.

Ookami
________
Honda rc116

[The Deacon]

Well, I think it's obvious that the Native "evolved" from the Renegade/BlackHawk design which had failed to capture the hearts and minds of it's target audience (bikers and their ladies), or much of anyone else. The Spyderco Story says it was originally conceived as a "low end" piece, and the 440A steel used on what became the "BRK 1st Gen" Natives confirms that. Aside from that, I think the OP is correct, only Sal can really explain the "why" of it.

[diaBECKtic]

I would like to know a little more about this knife too. It's so **** practical: perfectly sized, excellent combination edge configuration/ratio, great handle ergonomics, smooth action, (I could go on all day).

[bigcat]

I too have a curosity as to the name of the Native, but have been satisified with my own conclusion that it's name was derived from the fact that the blade so much reminds me of an arrowhead, which was used by the Native Americans. Then again it may be a question with a compound answer.

Of course I agree with everyone else...only Sal can settle this discussion.


BigCat

[Bolster]

I would like to know a little more about this knife too. It's so **** practical: perfectly sized, excellent combination edge configuration/ratio, great handle ergonomics, smooth action, (I could go on all day).

Please elaborate. I have avoided this knife, because of its steep sabre grind and "stabby" looking tip (I've seldom found a dagger-style tip useful). I am very curious why it deserves high praise...what am I missing? Educate me.

[The Deacon]

Bolstermanic, the Native is one of those knives that engenders strong feelings, you either love it, or hate it. Can't say why others love it, but I like the overall looks, although I do wish Spyderco would drop the saber grind in favor of a full flat and loose the hideous looking swedge grind and the boye dent.

The handle fits my hand very well and is about the smallest I can get a full four finger grip while holding it behind the choil. As much as I prefer models like the Native that have a 50/50 choil, I like the option of being able to get a comfortable four finger grip without using it. It feels comfortable and works well in the grips I find most useful. The spiderweb texturing pattern, while not as attractive as the fishscale texturing on the Calypso Jr. offers slightly better grip, and much better grip than the truly fugly volcano grip.

The blade has a lot of belly, which comes in handy, and the leaf shaped blade has an elegant simplicity to it, or at least would if not for the visual distractions of the saber and swedge grinds. The lack of a hump makes it relatively narrow for a Spyderco, and perhaps a bit more pleasing to the eye. The lack of a hump makes it relatively narrow for a Spyderco, and perhaps a bit more pleasing to the eye when open. When closed, it makes the Native very compact in the pocket, an advantage when carrying loose.

The Native is fairly thin and has no sharp corners to cause wear and tear on my pocket, additional advatages for those of us who elect not to carry clipped. It is also fully ambidexterous which appeals to the "soutpaw rights activist" in me. :D It is also reasonably light. Finally, since Spyderco elected to, pardon my pun, "screw up" the Delica, and has stated the Caly Jr. is now permanently retired, it's become the only "under $50" option for those who do not see screw construction as an advantage. It's also the least expensive option for those prefer, or insist on, a US made knife.

[sal]

Hi NativeAmerican,

A company came to us in the mid 90's and asked us to design a knife that would appeal to the Wal-Mart customer. They offered to build and inventory the large amounts needed to be able to work with Wal-Mart.

I spent a fair amount of time in Wal-mart watching customers of knives and speaking with them as to their preferences. The Native design was the result of that investigation.

No hump. It was out first attempt at bi-directional texturing (which we've improved over the years), except for the "fugly" look some have. Large finger chil for control and safety. Good size for general use. The swedge "lightened" the blade. Full flat was considered, but the customer base seemed to prefer the "sexy" grind lines of the current design.

I liked the name "Native" which stood for "Native Amerrican" as the design was born and would be built in the USA.

I felt it was unfair to use the name without somehow compensating the Native American concept. So we set up a percentage of the knives to be sent to the Native American foundation in Denver. We ended up sending $5,000 to the foundation after a few years production.

The knife has presented its challenges but is still being made in the Golden plant. We have been though 3 steel evolutions.

We do have plans to refine the design and "upgrade", but no final design is there yet. Our plan was to go to liners and screw construction. Although with Paul's comment, I guess I need more input on rivets vs screws.

hope that helps.

sal

[tglahn17]

Hi, everyone,

The C41 Native is the first Spyderco I got, back in March. I've since gotten seven more Spydercos. I could've been a one man focus group for the C41. sal nailed all the reasons why I got it: no hump, choil, cool grind lines. I don't feel fully dressed until the C41 is in my pocket. Later,

[PSU]

Thanks for the info Sal! It's always interesting to learn about the background, development, and refinement of different Spyderco models. I find that I appreciate a model much more after I learn about the little details that have helped to evolve it to its current form.

I would love to see an updated version of the Spyderco Story :D

[OuchThatsSharp]

Thanks, Sal! As a Native collector, any information on it is greatly appreciated, especially the origin of the design. I'll put my 2cents in, I would like to see liners and screw construction. Liners for the extra blade support and screws so that it can be taken apart and cleaned/blade opening adjusted. How about with the screws, Spyderco offer handle options such has different materials and/or colors?

[Bolster]

...the Native is one of those knives that engenders strong feelings, you either love it, or hate it. Can't say why others love it, but I like the overall looks, although I do wish Spyderco would drop the saber grind in favor of a full flat and loose the hideous looking swedge grind and the boye dent.

Good explanation, Deacon, and I agree with your point regarding the grinds. I would gladly carry this knife if it came in a flat grind version, sans swedge grind. As is, it's too "wedgy" for me. I can't understand why WalMart customers would find the showy saber and swedge grinds so attractive. Perhaps because they like the "dagger" or "weaponry" connotations? Does it have additional cachet because it looks a little dangerous?

I know of a design group that discovered a way to sell lots of car amplifiers to teenage boys, when the amp industry as a whole was in a slump. Problem was, most amplifiers looked "clean" and "precise." Teenage boys wanted to look "dangerous" and "edgy." So they put a plastic skin on the amplifiers (which reduced their cooling efficiency) that had a spikey, alien look to them, and the teeny bopper boys went crazy for them.

Moral of the story is, don't underestimate what "looks" or "design" mean to the average customer. Afis might like simplicity and efficiency in a knife, which may be utterly unimportant to most buyers. (If efficiency and simplicity ruled, women would not wear high heels.) The mass market is likely keying off of a 'collective unconscious' of what they think the design says about them.

[fellyjr]

Speaking of Natives, here's my current favorite.

[LJK]

Designed and made for the Wal-Mart crowd!!! Man O man if I didn't read Sal's post with my own eyes I would not have believed it. For some reason I expected a much more romantic and colorful story.