I need a multi-city knife.

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Bolster
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I need a multi-city knife.

Postby Bolster » Sun May 20, 2007 5:42 pm

I need a multi-city knife.

As a city resident, I’ve been following the issue of NYC carry at BladeForums. I got a chill when I read this comment from a knowledgable forumite:

“As I have posted many times before, as a Former NYC LEO, this is a valid arrest [referring to arrests for carry of "gravity knives" or "inertia knives"] and he [GarageBoy] was lucky that it was not the end of the month as he most likely would have been charged with the far more serious crime of a gravity knife (a Class A Misd with up to one day less than a year as a possible sentence). …in NYC if the blade can be flicked open at all it is a gravity knife. This INCLUDES holding the blade and flicking the handle open !!! I totally disagree with all of this, but when several people used the syderco type knives and flicked them open by holding the hole on the blade and flicking the handle open, the court has determined that this is also a gravity knife....just a warning, so don't kill the messenger....” –Tom19176.

http://www.bladeforums.com/forums/showt ... 779&page=3

So my issue is this: I travel a lot, usually to large American cities. I’m searching for a “common denominator” knife I can carry to multiple US cities without doing hours of legal research specific to each city before each trip. I thought I had found the ideal type of travel knife, something from the Caly family. Now I’m questioning that. (I wish Spyderco posted some advice on this topic, along the lines of "This knife thought to be legal in these cities..." with an intersecting grid of knives and cities and countries.)

I really want this knife to be a lockback. Clearly we’ve learned from the GarageBoy Ordeal that it needs to be carried concealed. I’m questioning traveling with a blade that has a hole…it’s easy to flick the handle by holding the blade hole. I’m even questioning a wide blade that allows a LEO to grip the blade and snap the knife open. I fear I’m running out of Spyder options. Please tell me I’m wrong… do you have any advice?

Or more specifically, any advice that (1) doesn’t recommend I change my job and stop traveling to cities—I’m not going to change a career and relocate my extended family for knife carry desires. Telling me how wonderful your rural area is, compared to my urban area, really doesn’t address the issue and rest assured I already agree with you on that point; (2) doesn’t entail denouncements of laws or law enforcement, which (a) doesn’t help my predicament in the short term; (b) could turn off forumites whose opinions I want to hear; and (c) risks a thread shutdown if we “go there again.”

Forum moderators, feel fee to zap this posting if it’s off limits—no offense taken. I’m honestly looking for a way I can carry a Spyderco in multiple cities, if possible, and I think we need to address this “using the handle’s momentum to open the knife” issue.
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Capt. Carl
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Postby Capt. Carl » Sun May 20, 2007 5:58 pm

The micro dyad that is brand new looks like it will be not possible to do a spyderdrop due to one blade partially covering one side of the hole and I am guessing the tight action and small size. Additionally it is clipless and very small. The 2 blades as well as the jigged bone make it look friendly coupled with the size. You also get the benefit of a SE and PE blade in one package.

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Postby STR » Sun May 20, 2007 5:59 pm

If Spyderco is what you want get you a Kopa and don't look back. I think it is one of the best models Spyderco currrently offers.

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merciful
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Fixed

Postby merciful » Sun May 20, 2007 6:04 pm

Why not just go with a Street Beat, Ronin, or Kumo? Is the foldability critical for you? I've carried my Kumo and Ronin (as has the Doc, I'm sure, probably four or five at a time) in pocket pretty comfortably. For a short (even Chicago-legal!) option, how about a HAK?

Of course, I'm sure there're plenty of places where the law-making types think a fixed-blade is the first step toward utter anarchy.
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Postby yablanowitz » Sun May 20, 2007 6:29 pm

I think if you want to remain within the letter of the law as case history has interpreted it, you will have to give up on Spyderco, and quite likely lockblades altogether. I haven't seen the micro Dyad yet, but I can Spyderdrop my C39 with no trouble. You might as well get a small stockman or swiss army knife with no clip to carry until we win another revolutionary war.
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Postby GarageBoy » Sun May 20, 2007 6:30 pm

I don't know, fixed blade makes it hard to explain as "just a little utility pocket knife"

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Postby merciful » Sun May 20, 2007 6:49 pm

Well, perhaps not the HAK, with its two-inch blade; but I get your point. I'm glad I don't have to worry about these things to any real extent.
GarageBoy wrote:I don't know, fixed blade makes it hard to explain as "just a little utility pocket knife"
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Postby stonyman » Sun May 20, 2007 7:36 pm

Wow this New York thing is a bummer. The Kopa maybe or one of the Douk Douk over on Laci Szabo's site. Two hand operation, may keep you out of the can! Take care and God Bless!

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Postby flyguy » Sun May 20, 2007 8:04 pm

If you want to be 100% safe, don't carry a knife -- carry nail clippers. Not recommending this option to you, just stating an opinion.

Or be a little bit practical about it. Choose a "Little Big Knife" to carry from town to town. Don't clip it on the pocket. Granted, concealed might be a problem in some towns, but as long as you aren't being searched/arrested...

Without knowing why you carry a knife, it is hard to recommend one. If you are wanting self-defense, get the Lava. If you want a box opener, get a Cricket. If you want more options, get a Dyad. (Yes, the Dyad can be Spyderdropped open)

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Postby Capt. Carl » Sun May 20, 2007 8:21 pm

flyguy wrote: (Yes, the Dyad can be Spyderdropped open)
****............

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Postby T-Rex » Sun May 20, 2007 8:23 pm

My wife just got a Ladybug (SE) this weekend. Cute little Spyder with very big teeth. :eek: Now I want one too.
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Bolster
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Postby Bolster » Sun May 20, 2007 10:07 pm

flyguy wrote:If you want to be 100% safe, don't carry a knife... Or be a little bit practical about it. Choose a "Little Big Knife" ... Without knowing why you carry a knife, it is hard to recommend one...
Good comments on this thread so far, this is helpful, thank you. Flyguy, I'll be practical. I'd like to be 95-99% safe, and hope I can talk myself out of the rest or take my lumps. I am looking for the little big knife option but am trying to avoid the "gravity knife" issue. Regarding reason for carry: when you travel a knife becomes doubly important because it's often your only tool. So it pretty much has to do everything a knife can possibly do.
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Postby Dr. Snubnose » Mon May 21, 2007 12:24 am

Recently a friend of mine went to a NYC Yankees ballgame....security at the game took a nail clipper from him saying it was a dangerous weapon....then at the game they proceeded to hand out 50,000 baseball bats....(It was bat day) LOL....I just don't get it!....Doc :D
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Postby Darkfin » Mon May 21, 2007 12:36 am

Doc, I literally laughed out loud when I saw that post about Bats!

The lighter the handle, the less potential energy is in it, and the less likely it will be able to open via blade snap. Or a blade with a tightenable pivot where you screw it down tight. That limits your spydie options fairly drastically.

Your best bet would really be a SAK. They make them now with flash drives, led lights, pens and even clocks/stopwatches as well. Check THESE out.
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Postby Dr. Snubnose » Mon May 21, 2007 12:59 am

You can take most sheath knives that will fit in the front pocket add some paracord thru the kydex holes and pull the handle up push slighty forward and the knots will catch against the top lip of the front pocket and wave the sheath from the knife... sheath should stay in the pocket. You can knot the paracord on one side for loops on the other for optional belt carry (face the knots towards the front of the pocket for pocket carry)or place knots on both sides of the kydex sheath for the pocket only method....Doc :D
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Postby The Deacon » Mon May 21, 2007 5:45 am

Bolstermatic, the self proclaimed "former NYC LEO" has made enough errors of fact in the paragraph you quoted to make me severely doubt he ever wore a NYPD or TAPD uniform.

First, while I'm willing to believe quotas may exist in NYC and elsewhere for "revenue producing" violations of city ordinances - tickets for illegal parking, jaywalking, and the one GB was given for having a knife visible - I've never heard of any municipality so anxious to fill its jails that it sets quotas for misdemeanor arrests.

His interpretation of gravity knife law is also rather amusing. Unlike the "offense" GB was charged with, which is a violation of a local ordinance, and thus subject to interpretation by city courts, misdemeanor possession of a gravity knife is a violation of state law, and thus must be enforced in a manner reasonably consistent with what courts in other parts of the state have ruled previously. There's a tremendous difference between the recognized precedent here - that a gravity knife must open "in response to a simple flick of the wrist" - and what he is claiming. I would also dispute his suggestion that it makes no difference whether one holds the handle or the blade. My understanding is that the state law is predicated on the blade being released from the handle, not the other way around, so whether or not a given knife can be "spydie dropped" is irrelevant.

Now, that's not to say that an over zealous and under trained officer in ANY city may not arrest someone on charges that later have to be dropped by the DA due to a misinterpretation of a law. It's also not to say GB's Paramilitary was definitely NOT a gravity knife under NYS law, or that the officer involved could have been legitimately uncertain as to whehther it was or wasn't. I've handled one compression lock knife that came very close to what I would consider violating that law, and others which would require a very active imagination to so classify.
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Postby cobrajoe » Mon May 21, 2007 8:04 am

Have you ever considered a robin? From what I hear, the G-10 robin has an adjustable pivot, and is very well constructed. My brother's SS robin also has a very strong spring, so that helps against flicking. There is also a FRN version that would be harder to spyderdrop with the light handle.

Annother alternative, how about a keychain knife? Something like a ladybug or a finch, there's absolutely no way I can inertia open that little guy. Put a small fob or lanyard on it, and you can get a good enough grip on it for some possible SD situations (and I doubt any officer would consider using one of those as "leathal force")
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Postby Xplo » Mon May 21, 2007 8:58 am

No offense to Spyderco or the forumites here, but I don't think Spyderco has your solution. I think what you want is a SAK or multitool. I have a Leatherman Micra on my keychain that sees fairly regular use as a nail file, package opener, and bottle opener.

Of course, anything with an edge or point can potentially be considered a weapon, with all that implies; the fact that it's small, fiddly, concealed, or useful as a tool isn't going to matter to anyone who doesn't want it to matter. Even that Micra of mine has been taken away a couple times.

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Postby bh49 » Mon May 21, 2007 12:49 pm

I think you will be safe with Kopa.
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Postby Fred Sanford » Mon May 21, 2007 1:14 pm

If a cop wants to be a jerk he/she can nail you with a swiss army knife. If you carry yourself well, and are not looking for trouble you'll be fine.

I have a 2.5" limit here in my city and I have had a cop check out a Paramilitary on me and tell me it's a nice knife (3.1" blade). My point is that you cannot make every cop happy 100% of the time. I'll take my chances. Most days I have a knife with a 3" blade on me. If I get pulled over or checked out or whatever and they get all bent out of shape for my Delica, then so be it. I'll deal with it then. :)

Carry what you want, behave, and don't be a jerk. This will keep you out of trouble with the law 99.5% of the time.

For that other .5% of the time.....be nice to the cop and/or make sure you cross all your "T's" and dot all your "I's".
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