Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
spydutch
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Postby spydutch » Sun Jun 03, 2007 2:26 am

Murdoc wrote:Amen to that, brother! Although I know there are porfessionals out there that resharpen a SE blade forever without any damage. Not me, though. :o

Actually, the pics make it seem worse than it really is. That close-ups made me twist in pain when I saw them the first time - even although I made them myself and I carry that knife as EDC right now.

It is like in real life: the closer you look, the more flaws you discover :-)
Lesson: don't look too close at what you love ?? :D

To restore the reputation of my trusty old Police, that's what it looks like in total (keep in mind it is about 10 years old):

Image

Image

Image
Well these serrations don't look as bad to me after 10 years of use ;)

They just look like the serrations on a S30V Spydie and they cut extremely well I must say :D

By looking at those serrations I guess I won't be needing that much spare generation 3 Delica/SE's after all ;)
Arend(old school Spydie lover)

MEMBER OF THE INTERNATIONAL ORDER OF THE SPYDEREDGE!!!

VERY PROUD OWNER OF A CALY III/SE #043 :D

....AND A FG(PARA) MILITARY/SE IN CPMD2(thanx Sal):cool:

...I would love to have one in full SpyderEdge:p

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Vincent
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Postby Vincent » Sun Jun 03, 2007 3:04 am

JD Spydo wrote:I am sorry that I didn't answer your basic question on the last post but I think you sort of got the jest of it by what I said on the last post. That is another reason I touted the Spyderco 701 Profiles is that not only do I think that they do a much superior sharpening job on serrated blades but I also think they do a more precise and controlled sharpening job as well which in turn will make your blade last much longer too.

Albeit even with the 204 Sharpmaker you should be able to get at least 5 hard years of service from about any fully serrated Spyderco blade. Now if you were lucky enough to find a discontinued Spyderco fully serrated, stainless handled Rescue model ( C-14 or C-45) I would say you would easily get 10 years out of one of them. And that would be considering using it daily. Unless you give the knife a lot of punishing jobs I seriously doubt if more than 1 out of 500 knife users would ever wear out one of Spyderco's premium serrated blades in less than 5 years. It would also depend on what handle material your knife would have. Obviously stainless handles would last longer than FRN handles would. And Micarta would also be a very long lasting handle material.

But in short I don't even think you would have to even consider longevity of the blade when you are considering a Spyderco. If you are wanting a premium, fully serrated bladed knife then Spyderco is the ROLEX, Cadillac of the production serrated knife world>> HEy SPYDUTCH YOU CAN BACK ME UP ON THAT ONE CAN't YOU :D
why would you get more life out of the older models compared to the new models?

JD Spydo
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SE blade wear and total folder wear

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Jun 03, 2007 6:42 am

Vincent wrote:why would you get more life out of the older models compared to the new models?
The 2 older models that I mentioned on that Post are the now discontinued stainless handled Rescue models. I think that they would last longer than the average Spyder because I have never yet seen a Spyderco knife built as sturdy and solid as the stainless handled Rescue models are. You would have to hold one in your hand to see what I am talking about.

Also I was referring to the entire folder ( handle and all) when I made referrence to those 2 models. As far as how long one could reasonably expect a Spyderco serrated blade to last would depend on many factors. But I will stand by my statement that either one of the stainless Rescue models should last a minimum of 10 years with reasonable care. And that is if you are using them on a daily basis and maintaining, lubricating and sharpening them as needed.

As far as how long a serrated blade would last would also depend on several factors. There are very few knife users who would ever have to worry about wearing out a Spyderco serrated blade. I am sure that ZDP-189 and VG-10 SE blades will be the longest lasting. However I have been using an ATS-55 SE blade almost daily for over 2 years and I don't see any noticable wear from it yet. I hope that answers your question. JD :spyder: O
Long Live the SPYDEREDGE Spyderco Hawkbills RULE!!

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Evil D
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby Evil D » Sat Mar 16, 2019 4:43 pm

Bumping this old thread, hopefully to get some more long term insight on serration longevity.

Who has the longest used/most sharpened SE blade? C'mon Sal what have YOU got locked away that's seen a lot of sharpening?

I found all the concerns about rounded teeth interesting, since I prefer them round and deliberately "break them in" through sharpening. They seem to snag way less when a little rounded and slice more than scratch if that makes sense.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

vivi
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Re: Life span of SE

Postby vivi » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:01 pm

bell wrote:
Fri May 18, 2007 4:32 pm
OK if you are married to the Sharpmaker you will eventually blunt out the whole cutting surface.
I've got a decade old beater Tasman Salt that disagrees with that ;)

I'll get some pictures up tomorrow.

All of my Spyderco SE blades have been ground at 15 or 20 degrees. I sharpen them all at 15 degrees. I don't think the bevel will shrink using that method. It hasn't gotten noticeably smaller on that heavily used SE Tasman.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

vivi
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby vivi » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:10 pm

Well I lied I'm gonna go a head and post pictures now.

Image

Image

Image

This Tasman wasn't sharpened the first two years I had it. Did a bad job touching it up after that. Last year I reprofiled the 20 degree bevel to 15 on my medium rods, then have been sharpening it at 20 degrees ever since (It's a rough use beater after all).

It probably went over ten years without being able to push cut or slice a piece of paper. It's been used and abused and wasn't properly sharpened until two years ago. It's very, very sharp now, despite looking like it just fell out of a truck on the highway.

For the record I used to think SE blades would be tough to sharpen, but then I learned they're a breeze. Sharpen them basically the same as a PE blade on the sharpmaker but use the corners instead of flats. Not much else to it.

I can shoot a video of it if anyone wants, it was hard to get good focus in the photos.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt

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justjohn
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby justjohn » Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:50 pm

Outstanding question Left Hand Path, I never even thought about it until now. Murdoc, thank you for the excellent pictures you posted, and the supporting documentation. It has been an education for me indeed. I have learned a great deal about knives from the folks on this forum and I am grateful. Thank You!
- John

:spyder: "Spyderco"....nuff said! :spyder:

garret
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby garret » Sat Mar 16, 2019 6:23 pm

a very interesting subject, I have several SE but they are not used much because of the fear of sharpening. Seeing the resistance, I will not be afraid from now on. As a curiosity I find it easy to sharpen a dragonfly SE in H1 but a cricket SE vg10 resists me I do not understand why.

zhyla
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby zhyla » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:15 pm

I went thru a significant SE-only phase and picked up around a dozen older SE blades on eBay over a few years. My thought is that abuse tends to chip out teeth or part of the valley of the large serrations. If you’re really using the knife a lot you’ll probably wreck the knife over a long period of time rather than sharpening it into the ground.

That’s I think opposite of PE because PE is easy to grind out damage. With the right tooling perhaps the same could be said for SE.

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Re: Life span of SE

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Mar 16, 2019 7:15 pm

Vivi wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:01 pm
bell wrote:
Fri May 18, 2007 4:32 pm
OK if you are married to the Sharpmaker you will eventually blunt out the whole cutting surface.
I've got a decade old beater Tasman Salt that disagrees with that ;)

I'll get some pictures up tomorrow.

All of my Spyderco SE blades have been ground at 15 or 20 degrees. I sharpen them all at 15 degrees. I don't think the bevel will shrink using that method. It hasn't gotten noticeably smaller on that heavily used SE Tasman.
Now VIVI I agree with you and disagree with you both. Let me explain. First of all I do agree with you that the Spyderco 204 Sharpmaker won't ultimately destroy the cutting ability of a Spyderedge over time but by exclusively using the 204 Sharpmaker only it will diminish it over time. There are some problems that arise with using the 204 Sharpmaker continually and exclusively over time as your only tool to sharpen Spyderedges with. You will in due time get a distortion of the original factory serration pattern. The base of the serration pattern will round off the integral parts of the pattern which do most of the actual cutting.

I've gotten two Spyderedged beaters in trades I've done over the years and it took me a long time with diamond rods and using the 701 Profile kit to restore the original serration pattern that those knives came with from the factory>> but the time and effort were well worth it. The serrations on both blades were rounded off and the "spike" part of the serrations were severely rounded off thus compromising the cutting ability of that serration pattern.

Over the years I've tried to keep all my Spyderedged blades as close to the original pattern and geometry that they came from the factory with. Over time and not keeping the original pattern in tact it will change the cutting ability. Which is why I use manual tools for maintaining my Spyderedged units. Oh they will cut but they won't cut and rip nearly as good as they did with the original pattern they were made with. For quick touch ups on Spyderedges on the Sharpmaker is fine. But you should use manual sharpening tools in between uses of the Sharpmaker to maintain the pattern to it's original pattern IMO.

By doing all my Spyderedges that way I've never had any of the Spyderedged blades that I've owned over the years lose their efficient cutting power.

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JacksonKnives
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby JacksonKnives » Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:09 pm

Am I crazy, or didn't Sal say somewhere that he prefers a slightly rounded tip on serrations, as you'd see after a few resharpenings with the Sharpmaker?

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Jazz
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby Jazz » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:20 am

You just use it, sharpen it on the Sharpmaker, repeat until they're too flattened, then reprofile. Start all over again.
- best wishes, Jazz.

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Evil D
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby Evil D » Sun Mar 17, 2019 8:21 am

JacksonKnives wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:09 pm
Am I crazy, or didn't Sal say somewhere that he prefers a slightly rounded tip on serrations, as you'd see after a few resharpenings with the Sharpmaker?
He has, and many of us prefer them that way and feel they snag less. I definitely do.
SHARPEN IT LIKE YOU LOVE IT, USE IT LIKE YOU HATE IT
~David

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Re:

Postby Bill1170 » Sun Mar 17, 2019 10:06 am

Native Justice wrote:
Sat May 19, 2007 11:31 pm
I love SE edges and especially the big Dyad SE edge. The problem with sharpening a SE edge with the SM is that the forward portion of the SE is sharpened, not the back side. The 701 profile stones allow the entire SE edge to be sharpened and honed.

Gotta try it to believe it. The Profile stones are the "end all catch all" of SE treatments. If you like SE edges then, you gotta try the Profile stones. They're the best of the best and prolong the life of your SE edges to no end. They take a little more patience and practice but are the best of both worlds. If you love your SE, then you have to buy a 701 profile set.

My $.02.

NJ
That business of only sharpening the “forward portion” of the serrations on the Sharpmaker is easily solved. Alternate pulling strokes with pushing strokes to hone both sides of each scallop.

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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby JD Spydo » Wed Mar 20, 2019 5:29 pm

JacksonKnives wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 10:09 pm
Am I crazy, or didn't Sal say somewhere that he prefers a slightly rounded tip on serrations, as you'd see after a few resharpenings with the Sharpmaker?
Actually that's an interesting point in some ways. To answer that question there are some serration patterns that do benefit from a more rounded/wavy type pattern. Spyderco's great kitchen/culinary knives are a great example of what I'm talking about. Particularly the K-04 & K-05 models. I've got both and use them in my kitchen at least 3 to 4 times a week and really don't need to sharpen them very often ( about once a month at the worst).

However there are jobs in which the more "Spikey" type of serration pattern has some advantages. Most of the Japan made folders and fixed blades have that distinction. Dealing with tough and fibrous materials like nylon, leather and most synthetic types of rope & cordage seem to cut better with the "Spikey" type of Spyderedge.

But in both cases I've found that using a file type manual sharpening rod makes the serration keep it's original factory made profile much longer in the long run. Now I'm not completely opposed to using the 204 Sharpmaker. I use mine occasionally for quick tune ups when I'm really busy. But for serious sharpening jobs I use my first option.

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Tims
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby Tims » Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:55 am

Vivi wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:10 pm
Well I lied I'm gonna go a head and post pictures now.

Image

Image

Image

This Tasman wasn't sharpened the first two years I had it. Did a bad job touching it up after that. Last year I reprofiled the 20 degree bevel to 15 on my medium rods, then have been sharpening it at 20 degrees ever since (It's a rough use beater after all).

It probably went over ten years without being able to push cut or slice a piece of paper. It's been used and abused and wasn't properly sharpened until two years ago. It's very, very sharp now, despite looking like it just fell out of a truck on the highway.

For the record I used to think SE blades would be tough to sharpen, but then I learned they're a breeze. Sharpen them basically the same as a PE blade on the sharpmaker but use the corners instead of flats. Not much else to it.

I can shoot a video of it if anyone wants, it was hard to get good focus in the photos.
Vivi, you reprofiled that using just the sharpmaker @ 30 degrees? That’s a remarkably uniform scratch pattern over the entire bevel. Even up onto the ricasso

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Re: I prefer the 701 PRofiles for SE Spyders

Postby Doeswhateveraspidercan » Thu Mar 21, 2019 7:01 am

JD Spydo wrote:
Thu May 17, 2007 3:01 pm
You bring up some very thought provoking points there Left Hand Path. I am truly glad that you put some of them on the table to look at closely.

First of all I want to say up front that I have the utmost respect for the 204 Sharpmaker. I own 2 of them and use them both a lot. However I am not a fan of using that unit for sharpening serrated blades. I much prefer Spyderco's 701 Profiles ( medium & fine) set for sharpening serrated blades. The 701 Profiles do such a superb job on any of Spyderco's serrations that I don't even bother to even attempt to use any other sharpening tool on them.

For a lot of reason you put down I don't like the results I get from the 204 Sharpmaker on serrated blades. It grinds away some of the scallops and spikes and tends to round them off. Oh it will make the blade sharp>> that it will do if you work it like they show you in the video. But if you want your serrated blades to look like they did when they came new from the factory then you will like the 701 Profiles much better. It is a slow and laborious process and it takes a little more time to do it with the 701 Profiles but for no more times in one year that you need to sharpen your serrated blades the effort is worth it.
You know I have been looking for the 701 Profiles for a long time.

On Blade Forums in FEB 2017 https://www.bladeforums.com/threads/spy ... s.1472861/

Sal said "So, do you think there is enough demand to do a run of maybe 2,000 pcs of each grit. I thought about this and maybe adding a CBN version as well?

sal"

Well Sal everyone there was very positive about it so I wonder why there was no traction on making these?

As for me I think it is strange I had to purchase a USA Product on the secondary market from Great Britain :eek: :)

Anyway I just bought a set on Ebay from the UK. The seller counter offered and the wind up with shipping came to $77.39 US Dollars total for Brand New Spyderco Sharpening Stone ( SPY-701MF ) That's both Brown and White stones.

Close to $20.00 of the price is for shipping so $57.00 still comes in under MSRP of $69.95. I wonder what people paid for these when they were available?

I think I did pretty good considering how hard they are to find as a discontinued product. There are two sets left, anyone looking for these might want to take this opportunity to buy them.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Brand-New-Spyd ... Sw3k9cdZLt

vivi
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Re: Lifetime of a Serrated Edge

Postby vivi » Thu Mar 21, 2019 8:03 am

Tims wrote:
Thu Mar 21, 2019 4:55 am
Vivi wrote:
Sat Mar 16, 2019 5:10 pm
Well I lied I'm gonna go a head and post pictures now.

Image

Image

Image

This Tasman wasn't sharpened the first two years I had it. Did a bad job touching it up after that. Last year I reprofiled the 20 degree bevel to 15 on my medium rods, then have been sharpening it at 20 degrees ever since (It's a rough use beater after all).

It probably went over ten years without being able to push cut or slice a piece of paper. It's been used and abused and wasn't properly sharpened until two years ago. It's very, very sharp now, despite looking like it just fell out of a truck on the highway.

For the record I used to think SE blades would be tough to sharpen, but then I learned they're a breeze. Sharpen them basically the same as a PE blade on the sharpmaker but use the corners instead of flats. Not much else to it.

I can shoot a video of it if anyone wants, it was hard to get good focus in the photos.
Vivi, you reprofiled that using just the sharpmaker @ 30 degrees? That’s a remarkably uniform scratch pattern over the entire bevel. Even up onto the ricasso
Yep. The old bevel was closer to 20 degrees and was pretty beat up looking.
Current carry rotation:

Pacific Salt 2 LC200N | Manix XL M4 DLC | Aqua Salt


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