traditional african spydie? any interest?

[sal]

Good point on the name and origins. Probably wouldn't be too "ethnic" to use "Zambia". I have some close friends that fought for the "other" name of the country during the war.

I'm fine with "Chokwe". That's the way I think of it. Is there a "timeless" local symbol that would be respected and appreciated by the locals?

Do you have a pic of a Cassava plant?

I'll work on the design today and see how it might work as a 4" blade piece. It would be easier to carry. I hate designing "dust collectors"

Nice pic of the piano Darkfin. I have a few of those (from that region). I can even somewhat "play it".

sal

[Darkfin]

Thanks Sal, I hope to hear a recital sometime! I took the liberty of accumulating some cassava leaf images.



I also came across these 2 sites which have artistic versions of the leaves:

http://www.murnis.com/onlineshop/brooch ... valeaf.htm

http://cart.firstartsource.com/index.as ... =GO&Page=1

[Darkfin]

And the plants and roots.


I hope these meet with Clovisc's and Sal's approval! :)

Cheers!
Lee

[sal]

Thanx Darkfin,

exactly what I had in mind.

That might make a interesting FRN texture.

sal

[Th232]

The folding design that I penned used a negative angle handle, curved downward for more control. I also moved the spine peak back slightly to acccomodate the opening hole. I used three holes in the handle. A longer handle is necessary to cover the longer blade.

My thought was a compression lock with two full liners. Strong and easy to clean. I kept the blade length the same 5" as the original. I see that is now in question. Ideally, it would have an FRN scale to keep the cost down and to put a jungle scene or map of Zambia as texture. I guess we could use G-10 for a test run.

H1 has to be hollow ground. flat grinds are not possible at this time.

Ok, without seeing Sal's drawing, all of what he's said has been put in (sorry if it doesn't match up!), but the blade is still 8.5 cm (almost 3.5 inches?) long, and I'm working on FRN scales.

Nice render Will...what would it look like with a slight finger choil at the tail of the handle like on the Chinook? Just a thought...

And the lower model has the finger choil on the tail added.


And with G-10 scales:


Hey Clovisc, small question: when pushing the blade into something, did you ever feel like your hand was going to slip off the handle and straight onto the blade?

[clovisc]

hi guys, back again after a long day of work...

i LOVE the idea of a cassava-textured FRN handle!!! that's something the chokwes have grown for a long time, and still grow. i'd say it's also what they seem most proud of... it was always the first thing they wanted to show me when i was new there.

sal -- the PC zambia office numbers are:
PC Primary 260-1-260-377/264-958/264-995
PC Alternate 260-1-261-072/260-946/262-026

the staff is usually really stressed and busy, especially the country director, cindy (who is still fairly new). the guy there who is most on top of things and would probably be most helpful is a zambian national and a good friend of mine named Donald Phiri. if you call, ask the secretary if she can connect you with him. his email should be DPhiri@zm.peacecorps.gov . he's one of the most knowledgeable, hard-working, and humble human beings i've ever met, and i really can't say enough good things about him. tell him i say hello!!! (i'll email him, too, and give him a heads up...)

darkfin -- thanks for finding so many great pictures!!!!! i really like the scales you made, with the faces...

it's unfortunate, but for whatever reason, you rarely see this kind of art in the villages anymore.

[clovisc]

sal, i emailed donald phiri and gave him a little bit of background info about what you're considering doing. if you decide to call or email, he should know who you are. even if the peace corps wouldn't be interested, he might be very helpful in finding an alternate possibility.

[Jacks]

Clovisc,

How thick are the african knife blades? Where did the knifemaker get his steel? Do they just use any scrap steel they can find?

[Darkfin]

Sal and Clov, Y'all are both welcome! I am honored and humbled that I may be contributing a little something to y'alls efforts! My skills lie in online (and legal) research, so I try to contribute where I can. The whole concept of a direct ethnically derived knife, where some of the profits go back to the tribe from whence the knife design came, is just sublime!

Sal, I agree, the texture of the cassava on FRN scales has ALOT of potential! It would not only be handsome and representative of the tribe as Clov desires, but also quite functional! I look forward to seeing your sketches!

Clov, how would you describe the 'grind' of their blades?

[sal]

Thanx Clovisc,

Kristi will make communication. She was able to pull off the Whale Rescue blade project. She would be better at the "Chokwe project" than I would. I'll stick to designing knives.

The blade Clovisc sent to me is 1.7mm or .067 thick. Clovisc said it was forged from a railroad track, but he can provide the details.

For a 4" folder, I would have to make it thicker for function and safety, at least .100 or 2.5mm and 3mm or .125 would probably be more functional.

I redesigned the knife as a 4" folder. I think it is a good start, we still have to choose and fit a lock to it, so it will no down require some refinement.

Assuming we get to the stage where we would invest in an FRN mold, I would like to use Darkfin's Cassava plant as the texture.

If we use VG-10, we can use a full flat grind like the original. If we use H1, it has to be hollow ground. Clovisc?

I think the cause is a grand idea.

sal

[clovisc]

forged upon a hunk of railroad track, sal... from some kind of nail or piece of scrap metal.

i really love the idea of cassava-textured FRN!!!!

it's a hard choice between H1 hollow grind and VG-10 flat grind. in respect to the design, i'd like to say flat... in respect to the 7 month rainy season, i'd like to say H1. guess i'll have to let the elements win, as they always do... my personal choice would be hollow-ground H1. H1 always made much more sense to me in a village setting.

[Darkfin]

[clovisc]

Clovisc,

How thick are the african knife blades? Where did the knifemaker get his steel? Do they just use any scrap steel they can find?

hi jacks.

not sure about the exact thickness of the blades the knifemaker in my village made... and i don't have any with me here in VA that i can measure (my collection resides in delaware, 10.5 hours away...). i can tell you, though -- they were thick enough for chopping up cassava stalks, yet slim enough to be great tomato knives... :D

the knifemaker had a really hard time finding scrap steel and metal to make knives with -- talking to him, this was his greatest problem. you could buy pieces of scrap steel for blacksmithing in the market of the district capitol (which was SMALL, and looked a lot like the town luke pulls up to at the beginning of the first starwars movie), although he found most of his material looking through junk in the rural community. some people would sometimes bring him scrap metal to use.

his forge system was neat, and typical for the region... two wooden sticks pumping two different bellows feeding into a single pipe... you alternated left right left right left right REALLY fast for a LONG time to get the charcoal hot enough. i can tell you from personal experience -- that is NO easy task. this guy was in his 50s (considered very old in my area), and did everything from pumping the bellows to forging ALONE. i mocked up a design for a pedal system made out old of bicycle parts that could have been made fairly easily, but he wasn't at all interested in trying it.

[clovisc]

Sal and Clov, Y'all are both welcome! I am honored and humbled that I may be contributing a little something to y'alls efforts! My skills lie in online (and legal) research, so I try to contribute where I can. The whole concept of a direct ethnically derived knife, where some of the profits go back to the tribe from whence the knife design came, is just sublime!

Sal, I agree, the texture of the cassava on FRN scales has ALOT of potential! It would not only be handsome and representative of the tribe as Clov desires, but also quite functional! I look forward to seeing your sketches!

Clov, how would you describe the 'grind' of their blades?

hi darkfin -- just noticed this post... :D

i'm hugely appreciative of the help and input that you've provided... and really glad to see that people are interested in this project. big thanks to you, and all others, from the bottom of my heart.

grind was a full flat grind. kinda uneven, but it sure got the job done. the blacksmith was an amazing sharpener -- i've never seen anyone get something SO sharp SO quickly by hand. most people in my area were REALLY bad about keeping their knives sharp, although preparing traditional leaf sauces involved lots of cutting towards/into your hand, which you couldn't do with a laser-sharp blade.

i think cassava texturing will be amazing -- cassava really seems to be what people in my area were most proud of. when my father came to visit, i set a whole day aside for us to spend time together with one of my friends -- a very serious and energetic farmer (from the lunda tribe... as an interesting side-note, he had a pair of knives in a wooden double-sheath on his belt at all times). out of the 7 hours we spent on his farm, i'd say that 5 or 6 were dedicated to cassava... :D he claimed to grow 16 different varieties of cassava (although, i heard this number change from time to time. i know i saw about 7 or 8.).

it is a truly an impressive plant. in the chokwe language, "matamba." both the rhizomes (roots) and leaves are food sources, and eaten at nearly every meal -- it really sustains that part of the world. men traditionally tend to do the planting, while women do the majority of management, harvest, and preparation. (unless they're busy with a new baby, etc.). when it's harvesting time, roots are dug up, and then transported to a water source. i'd frequently see women carrying on their heads bushels of cassava that neither i nor they could have even lifted. then they soak the cassava to remove the cyanide (although most people also will chew on it raw, myself included), dry it in the sun, and eventually pound it into flour. from there, it's turned into nshima -- kinda like thick grits you roll in your fingers into balls, then dip in leaf sauces... that's breakfast, lunch, and dinner. it's extremely labor intensive.

leaves are cooked in baking soda until they become soft and gooey, then the excess water is poured off. lots of people will cook the leaves with peanut flour. in america, i sometimes create simulated cassava leaf relish by substituting spinach and/or kale. :D

but yea -- lots of thanks, darkfin, sal, Th232, and everyone else involved -- this project REALLY has a lot of meaning to me. the people in my village are really like family to me -- you can't imagine how much i miss them, every day. you also can't imagine how difficult and different life there was -- it was amazing to see the people who i worked with struggling and trying so hard to make their life better for their families. and i'm pretty proud to be -- thus far -- the only volunteer in the peace corps to have the honor of living and working in a predominantly chokwe village (although i certainly hope that changes -- i tried to see that it would...).

many days, i wish i was still in zambia. but i'm glad i had the time i did, and was able to get a good amount of work done... and i'm glad to be in virginia now, doing volunteer work again.

but i do sure miss my village...

[Th232]

Ok, the material itself is terrible, but you should be able to tell the outline of the cassava leaves:

[clovisc]

design-wise, this'll be one heck of an interesting knife... :D

judging by the number of hits to this thread, a lot of people are watching, although not necessarily posting... wonder what some of the other, more silent forumites think of the design/project?

[Sleeping Robot]

wonder what some of the other, more silent forumites think of the design/project?

I think this is great, for several reasons.

• Having an ethnic-inspired design and contributing to the region sounds great. I can't guarantee I'll buy one now, but I will sure look into it if/when it becomes a reality.
• It is a great illustration of how people can collaborate to make someone's vision a reality. There is still a long way to go, but it has come a long way very quickly and looks to have good odds for staying on-track. The web's ability to let small groups of geographically distributed people work together is one of the things I really love about it.
• Now I want to learn more about the Chockwe. I like learning new things, so that is great too.

Keep it going, guys. I'll keep watching and saving my spare change. I don't have any H1 blades yet, so this might be the first for me.

Best regards,
Ron

[Stenny]

I think there needs to be a Byrd version - after all, these original blades are cheap, and should be - so Spyderco models should also include a cheap version.
But I really like the design.

[griff76]

It is a great idea. Besides actually helping those in need, it creates a whole new angle for me : "But honey, its for charity" :D

[ceelias]

I'd be very interested in this design-(likely multiple purchases), and in contributing to the Peace Corps / AIDS prevention in Africa. Heck....make it the Forum Knife this year!!