Gunting question

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fellyjr
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Gunting question

Postby fellyjr » Thu Feb 15, 2007 8:42 am

Has anyone ever heard of or seen a live blade Gunting with Gin 1 blade steel? :confused:

JD Spydo
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Here's what I know

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Feb 15, 2007 10:04 am

AS far as I know only the Gunting Trainer was made with GIN-1. I have had 2 of the trainers and I have had 5 of the live blade versions in 440V & S30V. Those are the only 2 blade steels that I know of that they made the live blade version with.

Also the only Golden Colorado made Spyders that I am aware of that were made with GIN-1 were the Golden made Renegade & Blackhawk models and later on they made the Gunting trainer with it.
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fellyjr
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Postby fellyjr » Thu Feb 15, 2007 7:57 pm

Thanks for the info JD! ;) :D
I haven't been able to confirm it with anybody yet but the more I think about it, it must have been a mis print. Saw a gunting advertised with black G10 handle, plain edge and Gin 1 blade steel. :confused:

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Consider the source

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Feb 16, 2007 7:10 am

[quote="fellyjr"]Thanks for the info JD! ]

Well FELLY you've got to keep in mind that "Pawn Shop Trade Journals" are not always the best source for pertinent information on knife manufacturers :rolleyes: .

But seriously where did you see that information listed at :confused: . I've looked in a few of my old catalogs and I have only seen the Gunting Trainer listed with GIN-1 blade steel. I suspect that it was old bar stock probably left over from when they were making the Renegade & Blackhawk models ( just a guess on my part :) )
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Postby Rex G » Sat Feb 24, 2007 10:41 am

I would say it was misinformation. I seem to recall than one reason GIN-1 was used for the trainer Guntings is so that the trainers could not be sharpened. Something about the way the GIN-1 steel was heat-treated would not allow a fine edge to be ground, or something like that.
The company did not want people putting sharp edges on the trainers.
Civilians, Dodo, Guntings, Mili, P'kal, Rescues, Ronins, Temperance, others...

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Postby KennyC » Fri Mar 16, 2007 2:16 pm

Do you have any additional info or sources confirming that? I am about to start a project involving regrinding a seperate Trainer blade which I would like to fit into my existing trainer, to have a red-handled live Gunting without having to get another whole knife.

Kenny

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Trainers: With heat treated steel?

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:18 pm

That's interesting feedback from you guys. I had never even thought about whether or not TRAINER blades were heat treated or not :confused: . But the TRAINERS I have I would only use them for that purpose or for collector pieces.

However to keep them from breaking or chipping during training exercises I would imagine that they would have to do some heat treating or hardening to the trainer blades.

Albeit as much as the Gunting trainer cost now you wouldn't gain anything by making one into a live blade. I have seen Gunting trainers go for around $180 to $200 in the last year.

But again, getting back to FELLY's question: I have never seen a live blade Gunting with GIN-1 blade steel.
Long Live the SPYDEREDGE Spyderco Hawkbills RULE!!

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Postby yablanowitz » Fri Mar 16, 2007 4:57 pm

My guess would be the trainers would be heat treated to minimize bending, but left much softer to prevent chipping. That would be the only reason I can see for GIN-1 not taking an edge, as I have some GIN-1/G2 Spydies that are razor sharp.
I don't believe in safe queens, only in pre-need replacements.

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Postby Th232 » Fri Mar 16, 2007 5:13 pm

KennyC wrote:Do you have any additional info or sources confirming that? I am about to start a project involving regrinding a seperate Trainer blade which I would like to fit into my existing trainer, to have a red-handled live Gunting without having to get another whole knife.

Kenny
Don't have any further info regarding this, but... umm... red handles usually denote trainers, and I'd hate for a mix-up to occur if you reground the blade.
Will

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Postby Qship » Sun Mar 18, 2007 12:04 am

JD Spydo wrote:That's interesting feedback from you guys. I had never even thought about whether or not TRAINER blades were heat treated or not :confused: .
Trainers are generally heat treated the same as a live blade. Left soft, the lock would quickly wear. Which is why trainers cost about as much as a live blade.

Qship

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Gunting Trainers: Collectible by virtue of demand

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Mar 18, 2007 7:56 am

Qship wrote:Trainers are generally heat treated the same as a live blade. Left soft, the lock would quickly wear. Which is why trainers cost about as much as a live blade.

Qship
So then theoretically one could be successfully ground into a LIVE BLADE if that's indeed the case. But again I say that in the case of the GUNTING you really wouldn't gain much by doing so because the Gunting trainers are getting very pricey themselves. Also I think that the Gunting trainer is going to be one of the trainers that will remain high in demand and collectibility simply because of the super popularity of the Gunting.

I really doubt if very many of them would be made into live blades. The actual Gunting itself is still available if you are patient.
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Postby KennyC » Sun Mar 18, 2007 3:49 pm

JD Spydo wrote:But again I say that in the case of the GUNTING you really wouldn't gain much by doing so because the Gunting trainers are getting very pricey themselves. Also I think that the Gunting trainer is going to be one of the trainers that will remain high in demand and collectibility simply because of the super popularity of the Gunting.

..Yes but..



...I have 4 of them.. :D

and one extra blade from ebay, which is why I was considering doing the regrind, since if anything went wrong I would still be able to have four original, NIB trainers.

A big thank you to everyone who replied, now I just have to find time to start grinding.

:spyder: Kenny

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Postby BRAM » Thu Mar 29, 2007 9:07 pm

I guess if you like danger..why put a live blade in a Red DRone handle..
why not spray a live gun blue..then you can confuse it with a simunition gun..
or spray it red and confuse it with a non functional trainer gun..
Anyone who is into firearms understands the need for immediate color recognition..
its a safety issue: yours and the people around you.
THe Guntings are color coded to maintain that.
I cannot help it if knife makers or designers choose to ignore forearm safety colors...and endanger the end user because of some misguided color scheme.
But for a user to change it up..
Thats even more dangerous.

" don't worry..this gun isn't loaded..really.."
BOOOM..oops wrong gun..
"hey this is a safe trainer..oopps OH god thats my fingers on the floor.."

The LLCs, the Tusoks, The Desanguts, the SNAGS..they all conform to color coding safety.
Oh thats right..
I control the manufacture of those.

THe Gunting Red trainers are fully heat treated and tempered.
GIn1 is tough and trainers get more use and abuse than any live blade made.
I wanted a run of corrections CRMIPTs to be too hard - brittle to sharpen but hard enough to beat on people with force and regularity..
none were actually made...though regular CRMIPTS were made

thanks for the space to write.

bram

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sal
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Postby sal » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:39 am

I agree with Bram. We were very careful to maintain the "Red" is trainer concept. Bram was adamant about that when we were producing Guntings.

In addition, we never sold any "blades" by themselves, so it was either stolen or made elsewhere, which means no real history or control.

We're working on the red handles for the P'kals now. Same reasoning. "Red" is trainer.

Trainers are just as difficult and expensive to make as "live" models. The market is limited so investment is high for the return. That's why you don't see many trainers in the market for any knife models.

sal

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RED ENDURA: Was that the ONLY Red handled live blade?

Postby JD Spydo » Fri Mar 30, 2007 6:50 am

sal wrote:I agree with Bram. We were very careful to maintain the "Red" is trainer concept. Bram was adamant about that when we were producing Guntings.

In addition, we never sold any "blades" by themselves, so it was either stolen or made elsewhere, which means no real history or control.

We're working on the red handles for the P'kals now. Same reasoning. "Red" is trainer.

Trainers are just as difficult and expensive to make as "live" models. The market is limited so investment is high for the return. That's why you don't see many trainers in the market for any knife models.

sal
Mr. Glesser am I accurate in assuming that the older Red Handled Endura was the only live blade Spyder that was ever made with a red handle?

That knife was from back in the early to mid nineties if my memory serves me well. Also tell me if I'm wrong or not: That Red Handled Endura was made before any trainers ever got made. Is that correct?
Long Live the SPYDEREDGE Spyderco Hawkbills RULE!!

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sal
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Postby sal » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:03 am

Hi JD,

I seem to remember that we made some red Ladybugs back there a million years ago.

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Postby clovisc » Fri Mar 30, 2007 7:57 pm

interesting... never thought of the trainer issue this way before.

still, i reckon i'm the kind of finger-loser to throw bram's advice in the wind and swap blades to make myself a red-handled knife... D4 trainer is on my to buy list for this very reason! :D :eek:

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Postby bma » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:05 pm

sal wrote: I seem to remember that we made some red Ladybugs back there a million years ago.
Not exactly red, but the cranberry salsa comes close (my wife made a comment along the lines of "do you have any idea how hard it is to find a non-trainer red knife" when she gave me my Valentine's day present :)

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sal
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Postby sal » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:06 pm

bma wrote:Not exactly red, but the cranberry salsa comes close (my wife made a comment along the lines of "do you have any idea how hard it is to find a non-trainer red knife" when she gave me my Valentine's day present :)
That's true Bma. We did make a few cranberry Salsa's.

sal

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sal
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Postby sal » Fri Mar 30, 2007 8:16 pm

JD Spydo wrote:Mr. Glesser am I accurate in assuming that the older Red Handled Endura was the only live blade Spyder that was ever made with a red handle?

That knife was from back in the early to mid nineties if my memory serves me well. Also tell me if I'm wrong or not: That Red Handled Endura was made before any trainers ever got made. Is that correct?
Hi JD,

early 90's on the red Endura. Way before I even knew about trainers.

I learned about trainers from the MBC "guru's". James Keating, Bob Taylor, Bram Frank, Mike Janich, Laci Szabo, Michael DeBethencourt, Kelly Worden and Southnarc were my major MBC influences.

sal


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