Florijin,
That was a brilliant summation!
Very great.
Review: Benchmade Mini-Grip vs. Spyderco Native
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The Mastiff
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Not very funny, talking about stabbing or getting stabbed. Can you point out an example of a person being told they would be stabbed by a forumite here for their preference in knives?Having quite a few of both brands, being impartial and also collecting a lot of other brands,
I guess I could say that I can pinpoint some traits of character........
Some of them are not in accordance to the review.
Some of them will not sound so good to some of you guys on this forum.
But they are based on the average of the knives I own of the paricular brand and on the experiances of some of my European fellow collectors.
So don't shoot me right away, (don't stab me would be more appropriate on a knife forum) :D
One could claim the following:
5% huh? please explain how you got that percentage. Be specific please, as you are specific with the percentage you gave.Benchmade's are dull but they have a great finish!
(better explained, The chance that one buys a Benchmade that is dull is about 5%, this is a rather high percentage for such an essential function, as the general pupose of a knife is cutting!).
once again, please explain how you got that percentage. Be specific please, as you are specific with the percentage you gave.Spyderco is sharp but their finish is bad!
(better explained, The chance that one buys a Spyderco that is dull is very remote, but the chance that it has a bad finish or isn't finished at all is about 20%, this is even higher but not as bad as functionallity).
Are you saying they are too sharp?You could ask yourself what is sharp?
I would say that the dull BM's I have still could cut,
but they could be sharpened much better.
Most Spyderco's come scary/shaving sharp
but do they have to come that sharp for heavy duty work?
Top notch finish? You certainly could be describing Spyderco's here. Even the economy models compare with their benchmade counterparts. Easily.[The general BM customer is looking for:
A high quality knife with a slight conservative design and top notch finish.
Good in the field but also a little fancy and very well suitable as a dress knife.
Very overated IMO. Example Skirmish and Ruckus. Both disappointing finish wise untill you get up to the higher costing editions. Mine were anyways. Example, I have the base 630 and it's finish doesn't compare to a 2003 era CKRT S2 Ti Framelock in ATS34. It does have much thicker stock, but the feel on my hand is like the proverbial fingernails screeching on a chalkboard. I'm assuming the "Gold" model wouldn't have that problem but I've never seen one, and for sure wouldn't buy one.Very much in demand with collectors due to the variety in series and
numbered and limited editions.
You're not going to find too many forumites that are going to tolerate "less detail for finish" compared to a Benchmade, Kershaw, CKRT, ETC. Perhaps in comparison to customs that are hand made and cost much, much more.The company owner chooses not to communicate with his followers (buyers).
But the company does commincate over the forum via an employee.
However they do listen to their customers.
You could say the fans and company have a good bussines relation......
The Spyderco customer is looking for:
A high quality and tuff user with less detail for finish.
Very extreme design and variation in totall knife line-up (this means that every Spydie fan has a least one model that fits him perfect as hands differ in shape and size).
Also collected due to the variety in collaborations models and steel options.
The company owner does choose to communicate directly with his followers (buyers).
Also is active in discussing design and knife talk on the forum, (whitch is very good).
You could say the fans and company have a good family relation......
résumé:
There are no bad knives made by the well known US brands.
Each knife or brand has it's pro's and con's, they all have their own character.
It's all a mather of personal taste !!!!!!!
I happen to like both for their positve properties.
So people please respect each other, live and let live.
As cheez says there are even many more great brands and designs than just Spyderco or BM.
PEACE, wishing you all a Merry Christmas
and all the best for the up comming new year :cool:
PS looking forward to meeting the Spyderco "family" in Amsterdam again!
My beef about Benchmade is a lack of progress. What steel have they brought to the public in an affordable model that sets the bar higher like Spyderco and the very affordable and now regular production ZDP 189. Recall before that the excellent VG10 that is in use almost as a reference standard. What about new locks lately, since the Axis? What innovation at all?How about fun but technically excellent sprints like the extremely excellent BG42/CF military model.
Still, look how many benchmades I have too. I like to think I cherry pick the best of everything on the regular production market, plus what customs I can afford, rather than stick to only 1 brand. That's why I'm also using knives made of SPGS, Blue steel, S90V ( microtech), BG42, CPM 154cm, Damascus, Talonite, Titanium in both Beta Ti from Mission knives and Bokers cera (?) ti. Etc, Etc,
For people who constantly seek evoulution and progress, Spyderco is better suited than Benchmade IMO. That's not meant to be an insult any more than stating Chris Reeves makes better knives than Gerber. It's just the position the company management takes. I have no idea which company sells more, benchmade or spyderco. I would bet money that both companies follow a business plan which puts them in the position they want to be in. JL.
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
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jimbo@stn24
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- Location: Alberta Rockies
This was one that I was going to stay out of until the last post which sort of rubs me wrong. I am sure florijn can defend himself well, 
,however humour me if you will fellow forumites.
I think florijn came up with mostly a general wild *** guess from the gut and never intended the percentages he posted to be absolute empirical data quoted from studies as Mastiff suggests. But to be specific as requested, the debate in this post mentions Benchmade and Spyderco SPECIFICALLY, so if you want to debate, do it in style and stick to the subject, not Microtech, CRKT, etc..
As for bringing different steels to market, while Spyderco is to be commended for bringing affordable ZDP 189 to the masses. Benchmade has brought D2 and M2 steel out in more models each than you can currently obtain with ZDP, a fact often overlooked when people want to discuss innovation in steel availability. Yes, I am purposely overlooking H1. Both offer S30V. You can get 154CM (a great American steel) or VG-10, your choice. While some say 154 is no match for VG-10, well it is for me. But then again, I don't pry, cut rocks or coat hangers, battery cables open oil drums and such with my knives.
Mastiff you seem impressed by the most excellent BG42 Millie, a great knife but it likely is no more technically excellent than my S30V Millie, but you are impressed and REALLY, that is all that is important. Putting a ZDP blade in a $50 FRN handled Delica may impress others as well but it obviously does less for me than you. Mentioning outta the box edge quality, my experience is you should expect to work on a Benchmade edge. Two of the last 4 had edges as sharp as a Spyderco, 2 did not. Spyderco seems to set the out of the box sharpness standard.
Florijn posts about fit and finish, while your experience may not mirror his, mine does, and seeing as you want specifics here is some data to contemplate. Out of 7 Spydercos, exactly 28.57% have equal fit and finish to the base level of fit and finish of the 8 Benchmades I own.
Locks, how many of Spydercos come with a liner lock or the midlock? The Axis is a fine lock, the lack of variety or innovation is hardly a point of debate if they are made well, for me. Perhaps you want a variety, function is more important to me, I like liners, frame, Axis, frontlock as long as they are made well. The Endura and Delica are offered in a mind numbing multitude of colours and configurations, the Salt series and so on, likely far eclipsing the Grip flavours. I don't do much FRN or stainless so it is lost on me the terrific varieties of knives from Spyderland, but again if that is what makes your bum hum, great.
I try to remain objective when evaluating the products being debated. My findings and what I've posted are not a result of cherry picking my debate points. Like you I enjoy knives from several makers, not just Spyderco and Benchmade.
None the less, Merry Christmas Mastiff, florijn and fellow forumites.
,however humour me if you will fellow forumites.I think florijn came up with mostly a general wild *** guess from the gut and never intended the percentages he posted to be absolute empirical data quoted from studies as Mastiff suggests. But to be specific as requested, the debate in this post mentions Benchmade and Spyderco SPECIFICALLY, so if you want to debate, do it in style and stick to the subject, not Microtech, CRKT, etc..
As for bringing different steels to market, while Spyderco is to be commended for bringing affordable ZDP 189 to the masses. Benchmade has brought D2 and M2 steel out in more models each than you can currently obtain with ZDP, a fact often overlooked when people want to discuss innovation in steel availability. Yes, I am purposely overlooking H1. Both offer S30V. You can get 154CM (a great American steel) or VG-10, your choice. While some say 154 is no match for VG-10, well it is for me. But then again, I don't pry, cut rocks or coat hangers, battery cables open oil drums and such with my knives.
Mastiff you seem impressed by the most excellent BG42 Millie, a great knife but it likely is no more technically excellent than my S30V Millie, but you are impressed and REALLY, that is all that is important. Putting a ZDP blade in a $50 FRN handled Delica may impress others as well but it obviously does less for me than you. Mentioning outta the box edge quality, my experience is you should expect to work on a Benchmade edge. Two of the last 4 had edges as sharp as a Spyderco, 2 did not. Spyderco seems to set the out of the box sharpness standard.
Florijn posts about fit and finish, while your experience may not mirror his, mine does, and seeing as you want specifics here is some data to contemplate. Out of 7 Spydercos, exactly 28.57% have equal fit and finish to the base level of fit and finish of the 8 Benchmades I own.
Locks, how many of Spydercos come with a liner lock or the midlock? The Axis is a fine lock, the lack of variety or innovation is hardly a point of debate if they are made well, for me. Perhaps you want a variety, function is more important to me, I like liners, frame, Axis, frontlock as long as they are made well. The Endura and Delica are offered in a mind numbing multitude of colours and configurations, the Salt series and so on, likely far eclipsing the Grip flavours. I don't do much FRN or stainless so it is lost on me the terrific varieties of knives from Spyderland, but again if that is what makes your bum hum, great.
I try to remain objective when evaluating the products being debated. My findings and what I've posted are not a result of cherry picking my debate points. Like you I enjoy knives from several makers, not just Spyderco and Benchmade.
None the less, Merry Christmas Mastiff, florijn and fellow forumites.
WTC #1455
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The Mastiff
- Member
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- Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:53 am
- Location: raleigh nc
Merry Christmas Jimbo. Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
Hello Mastiff and good morning to you.
I thought this was clear to any one as an more joke like comment (as it was followed by a smilie) for I knew what replys would follow due to my BM vs Spyderco post.
If some should take offence to this remark, I apologize.
Just as with taste in knife choise we can't all have the same taste of humor.
and also on collections of some friends of mine that ended up with the same percentage.
Concerning my statement "Benchmade's are dull"
I have some collector friends who only collect Spyderco
and was invited to the Spyderco meeting.
For example, I visited that Spyderco meeting in Amsterdam this year Feb.
First thing one of the guys said to me even before introducing ....
So you are that BM guy ...... "You have to sharpen every knife right out of the box don't you?"
So with that particular statement I only meant what a lot of Spyderco fans say about BM.
And what is even worse for a small part they are right!
The older BM's had problems with sharpness and that is what gave BM
the bad name in the Spyder community.
**** even now adays some times some thing go's wrong at BM.
I recently received a dull gold series knife ?????
Looking at the price they should be sharp ......
Even if it was a cheap knife it should be sharp.
And don't get me wrong! I'm not stabbing BM in the back.
I also expressed my concerns at the BM forum,
there were also some other people that had received a dull 635-60.
BM offered to send the knife back for sharpening
but I didn't want to send it in due of shipping loss risk.
I have only 14 Spyderco knives but please note these are only the collaboration and high-end knives.
Again some of my collector friends have large :spyder: collections
and come to the same percentage.
So I think for Spyderco as well as for BM this reflects in general
how knives are delivered right out of the box.
Or may be the companies are just sending dull and un-finished knives to Europe .......? :D
Concerning my statement "Spyderco's are not finished"
Now this is exactly the other way around,
this is what some BM people say about Spyderco.
They are used to a finish second to none
and Spyderco is indeed scary sharp but not at the BM level with finish.
But this totally depents on what you do with your knife.
I have a few users but most of my knives are in the collection
and don't get any exercise.
If you have a dull BM and a scary scharp Spydie
and you have to cut a glassfibre cabel ......example
It doesn't make a difference.
The dull knife will cut the cable.
The sharp knife will cut the cable also
but will be dull after cutting the cable because of the steep angle of sharpening.
This is what I mean with hard use.
If you have to cut a piece of paper,
yes the sharp one will cut and the dull one won't
I do have some Spydies that have that BM finish, like the ATR Ti and the Civilian plain CF.
Don't get it here, now you are comparing other knives......
But to get back to finish.
I haven't got a single BM that had burrs on it when it came out of the box!
Also all grinds on the blades are even and well centered.
On (both plain and serr) my Bob Lum Tanto's I had to remove the burrs inbetween the Ti scales and the liners all around the knife.
Same thing with my Shabaria and Walker.
I also would like to see more new and different steels with Benchmade!
But if you have some Microtech (the older one's) knives in your collection you
must be able to appreciate a wel finished knife, although it is an unfair comparison with Spyderco.
I think that BM had the best model line-up two years ago.
What did come new, either you like it or you don't, I do like them
but also would have liked to see some more daring designs and some of the older knife designs.
They don't have the daring designs (as the collaboration modells) by Spyderco.
As for sales i think they both do well and serve their fans well.
My thread was merely meant to unite both knife families
and to point out to the prejudice stories that are often blown way out of proportion.
Again people have different taste but this doesn't mean they are bad or the stuff they buy is crap.
Respect each other ! live and let live.
We all have got one thing in commen and that is the love for knives!
PEACE and Merry Christmas to all of you.
Concerning my stabbing remark......The Mastiff wrote:Not very funny, talking about stabbing or getting stabbed. Can you point out an example of a person being told they would be stabbed by a forumite here for their preference in knives?.
I thought this was clear to any one as an more joke like comment (as it was followed by a smilie) for I knew what replys would follow due to my BM vs Spyderco post.
If some should take offence to this remark, I apologize.
Just as with taste in knife choise we can't all have the same taste of humor.
This percentage is based on the 60+ Benchmade's I own my selfOne could claim the following:
5% huh? please explain how you got that percentage. Be specific please, as you are specific with the percentage you gave.
and also on collections of some friends of mine that ended up with the same percentage.
Concerning my statement "Benchmade's are dull"
I have some collector friends who only collect Spyderco
and was invited to the Spyderco meeting.
For example, I visited that Spyderco meeting in Amsterdam this year Feb.
First thing one of the guys said to me even before introducing ....
So you are that BM guy ...... "You have to sharpen every knife right out of the box don't you?"
So with that particular statement I only meant what a lot of Spyderco fans say about BM.
And what is even worse for a small part they are right!
The older BM's had problems with sharpness and that is what gave BM
the bad name in the Spyder community.
**** even now adays some times some thing go's wrong at BM.
I recently received a dull gold series knife ?????
Looking at the price they should be sharp ......
Even if it was a cheap knife it should be sharp.
And don't get me wrong! I'm not stabbing BM in the back.
I also expressed my concerns at the BM forum,
there were also some other people that had received a dull 635-60.
BM offered to send the knife back for sharpening
but I didn't want to send it in due of shipping loss risk.
This pecentage is also based on my own collection!once again, please explain how you got that percentage. Be specific please, as you are specific with the percentage you gave.
I have only 14 Spyderco knives but please note these are only the collaboration and high-end knives.
Again some of my collector friends have large :spyder: collections
and come to the same percentage.
So I think for Spyderco as well as for BM this reflects in general
how knives are delivered right out of the box.
Or may be the companies are just sending dull and un-finished knives to Europe .......? :D
Concerning my statement "Spyderco's are not finished"
Now this is exactly the other way around,
this is what some BM people say about Spyderco.
They are used to a finish second to none
and Spyderco is indeed scary sharp but not at the BM level with finish.
NO, certainly NO.Are you saying they are too sharp?
But this totally depents on what you do with your knife.
I have a few users but most of my knives are in the collection
and don't get any exercise.
If you have a dull BM and a scary scharp Spydie
and you have to cut a glassfibre cabel ......example
It doesn't make a difference.
The dull knife will cut the cable.
The sharp knife will cut the cable also
but will be dull after cutting the cable because of the steep angle of sharpening.
This is what I mean with hard use.
If you have to cut a piece of paper,
yes the sharp one will cut and the dull one won't
Sorry NO in general, but this is my personal opinion!Top notch finish? You certainly could be describing Spyderco's here. Even the economy models compare with their benchmade counterparts. Easily.
I do have some Spydies that have that BM finish, like the ATR Ti and the Civilian plain CF.
Very overated IMO. Example Skirmish and Ruckus. Both disappointing finish wise untill you get up to the higher costing editions. Mine were anyways. Example, I have the base 630 and it's finish doesn't compare to a 2003 era CKRT S2 Ti Framelock in ATS34. It does have much thicker stock, but the feel on my hand is like the proverbial fingernails screeching on a chalkboard. I'm assuming the "Gold" model wouldn't have that problem but I've never seen one, and for sure wouldn't buy one.
You're not going to find too many forumites that are going to tolerate "less detail for finish" compared to a Benchmade, Kershaw, CKRT, ETC. Perhaps in comparison to customs that are hand made and cost much, much more.
Don't get it here, now you are comparing other knives......
But to get back to finish.
I haven't got a single BM that had burrs on it when it came out of the box!
Also all grinds on the blades are even and well centered.
On (both plain and serr) my Bob Lum Tanto's I had to remove the burrs inbetween the Ti scales and the liners all around the knife.
Same thing with my Shabaria and Walker.
Here you might be right,My beef about Benchmade is a lack of progress. What steel have they brought to the public in an affordable model that sets the bar higher like Spyderco and the very affordable and now regular production ZDP 189. Recall before that the excellent VG10 that is in use almost as a reference standard. What about new locks lately, since the Axis? What innovation at all?How about fun but technically excellent sprints like the extremely excellent BG42/CF military model.
Still, look how many benchmades I have too. I like to think I cherry pick the best of everything on the regular production market, plus what customs I can afford, rather than stick to only 1 brand. That's why I'm also using knives made of SPGS, Blue steel, S90V ( microtech), BG42, CPM 154cm, Damascus, Talonite, Titanium in both Beta Ti from Mission knives and Bokers cera (?) ti. Etc, Etc,
I also would like to see more new and different steels with Benchmade!
But if you have some Microtech (the older one's) knives in your collection you
must be able to appreciate a wel finished knife, although it is an unfair comparison with Spyderco.
Here I think you are partially right.For people who constantly seek evoulution and progress, Spyderco is better suited than Benchmade IMO. That's not meant to be an insult any more than stating Chris Reeves makes better knives than Gerber. It's just the position the company management takes. I have no idea which company sells more, benchmade or spyderco. I would bet money that both companies follow a business plan which puts them in the position they want to be in. JL.
I think that BM had the best model line-up two years ago.
What did come new, either you like it or you don't, I do like them
but also would have liked to see some more daring designs and some of the older knife designs.
They don't have the daring designs (as the collaboration modells) by Spyderco.
As for sales i think they both do well and serve their fans well.
My thread was merely meant to unite both knife families
and to point out to the prejudice stories that are often blown way out of proportion.
Again people have different taste but this doesn't mean they are bad or the stuff they buy is crap.
Respect each other ! live and let live.
We all have got one thing in commen and that is the love for knives!
PEACE and Merry Christmas to all of you.
My addiction
--------------------------------------------
Patience is never more important than when you are on the verge of losing it.
--------------------------------------------
Patience is never more important than when you are on the verge of losing it.
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The Mastiff
- Member
- Posts: 5951
- Joined: Sun Jun 04, 2006 2:53 am
- Location: raleigh nc
Merry Christmas to you too Florijn. Joe
"A Mastiff is to a dog what a Lion is to a housecat. He stands alone and all others sink before him. His courage does not exceed temper and generosity, and in attachment he equals the kindest of his race" Cynographia Britannic 1800
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
"Unless you're the lead dog the view is pretty much gonna stay the same!"
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smcfalls13
- Member
- Posts: 7218
- Joined: Sun Jun 05, 2005 12:09 pm
- Location: Reisterstown, MD, USA, Earth
Not a bad review. I'm skeptical of some of the points made about both knives. I've handled a mini grip, and I've handle a Native. I disagree with some of the observations, perhaps because these are both "economy" knives, there is a large variance between different pieces.
:spyder: Scott :spyder:
"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
-Sir Winston Churchill-
"We make a living by what we get, we make a life by what we give."
-Sir Winston Churchill-
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Saint-Just
- Member
- Posts: 87
- Joined: Wed Jul 05, 2006 3:48 pm
- Location: United Kingdom
Cheez & Florijn
I was just reading this thread after a Christmas break. I find it quite interesting that you both claim being sick of anti BM stance when there was NONE. What was stated was that some fans push brand loyalty a little too far. And you have to remember there is recent bad blood with the Vex.
Other than that, all I could read were comments accepting the review and some of the critics made. Nothing unreasonable either way, apart from you trying to stir the stick in the hole to see if you can get some bees angry.
I think it's even more obvious with florijn, since his post was quite late in the thread and there was no display of anti BM attitude (and this is not any knife forum, it's Spyderco's).
Other than that I agree to all the points you made Florijn. I also believe the Benchmade Mini-Grip is a great knife.
There is just one aspect you forgot to mention that - to me - makes a big difference. It's called Company ethos.
That is why I do not own a Benchmade.
I was just reading this thread after a Christmas break. I find it quite interesting that you both claim being sick of anti BM stance when there was NONE. What was stated was that some fans push brand loyalty a little too far. And you have to remember there is recent bad blood with the Vex.
Other than that, all I could read were comments accepting the review and some of the critics made. Nothing unreasonable either way, apart from you trying to stir the stick in the hole to see if you can get some bees angry.
I think it's even more obvious with florijn, since his post was quite late in the thread and there was no display of anti BM attitude (and this is not any knife forum, it's Spyderco's).
Other than that I agree to all the points you made Florijn. I also believe the Benchmade Mini-Grip is a great knife.
There is just one aspect you forgot to mention that - to me - makes a big difference. It's called Company ethos.
That is why I do not own a Benchmade.
C'est magnifique, mais ce n'est pas la guerre!
Gal. P. Bosquet, 25th Oct 1854
Gal. P. Bosquet, 25th Oct 1854
