quite upsetting

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dete
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quite upsetting

Postby dete » Sat Jul 15, 2006 8:53 pm

I have been trying to design tactical folders for military use,

I talked to a company and they turned me down,

basically seems like they liked it, but didn't think it would
be marketable.

They are right, it's just another military folder.

why take the risk to make this one unless it has something very
unique and creative to it right?

so my question is what would make it unique and creative enough?
It still needs to be marketable, it needs to be conventional looking
if not they will think it's too weird.

any ideas?

thanx fellas. :)

JD Spydo
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Got to cover the bases

Postby JD Spydo » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:02 pm

It's really hard to bring stuff to market. Even when it is great stuff. There is so much politics, bureaucracy, government regulations and red tape of various types. Now I am not trying to kill your dream or idea but I do think it is important for people to know what their up against. It absolutely amazes me that Spyderco went as far as they did from the ground up. That's why Sal Glesser is really kind of a folk hero to a lot of us. It's a tough ladder to climb.

Just keep plugging and keep talking to people and if you're persistant you might just get a break. The best of luck to you. I would love to see a pic of your design.
Long Live the SPYDEREDGE Spyderco Hawkbills RULE!!

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Postby Chucula » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:10 pm

the most important thing by far is to be persistant, but you already knew that. I'll just throw in that connections are very useful.

EDIT: To make a "creative" knife (oxymoron, IMO) just cut the blade in a funny shape or combine to blade styles (tanto, hawkbill, recurve, etc). thats the extent of creativity that i see in manufactured knives.

However, if you have the time and ability, make the knives and make slight adjustments to the blades and see what happens. I bet minor changes in some of the combo-bladed knives could result in big gains in cutting performance.

EDIT 2: and what zen says :p

EDIT 3: another thing i remembered that is important when trying to sell an idea is to have a lot of confidence in it. If you really think your design is good, make others agree with you. Good luck man!

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zenheretic
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Postby zenheretic » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:20 pm

Chucula wrote:the most important thing by far is to be persistant, but im sure you already knew that. I'll just throw in that connections are very useful.
The quality of refusing to give up in the face of rejection is what seperates the successful from the cable TV watching couch potatoes. :)
Follow the mushin, but pay it no heed.

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Vincent
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Postby Vincent » Sat Jul 15, 2006 9:23 pm

I would look at whats out there today and to try to use some of it and use it as inspiration. Then try to implement something you come up with.

Good luck I wish ya the best.

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Michael Cook
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Postby Michael Cook » Sat Jul 15, 2006 10:26 pm

:spyder: Do you know what military members are looking for in a knife? "military" covers quite a large number of MOS's :spyder:
More of what does not work will not work. Robin Cooper, Rokudan; Aikikai.

There is great power in the profound observation of the obvious. John Stone, Rokudan; Aikikai

Ed Schempp
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Perspective

Postby Ed Schempp » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:18 am

Sal has engineered knives from a napkin drawing that when put into CAD the blade was too big for the handle. This takes a lot of engineering expense at the factory. If someone can engineer a knife to performance it is Spyderco. For the company to go to that expense, the design needs to be good and comply with Spyderco priorities.

As a maker-designer- user, I have an advantage over the design only person. I design it; I build it, I test, and from the feedback of the three operations; I then refine the piece. Because of doing all the operations I have a refined design, a working model, that has incorporated Spyderco's specs. This minimizes engineering costs at the factory.

Spyderco has produced over 100 models. These models represent maybe a dozen edge profiles repeating in various lengths. The thickness of the blade and its edge determin a handle. I find it a difficult challenge to make a Spyderco design that hasn't already been addressed to a high degree. From Spydercos point of view it probably doesn't pay to market anything but improvements of their designs, or to have a really fresh original design. Then look at the competition. Does your design look like another on the market?

I applaude Spyderco for always being vigilant to new tends and exciting designs. I think it is cool that we have the Adventura, the Lava, and the Captain. Those three knives represent a very diverse group of realtively new designers. Spyderco gave me a chance and alot of challenges. Sal's challenges have made me grow and learn.

Keep learning and keep designing the passion will show through...Take Care...Ed

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DAYWALKER
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Postby DAYWALKER » Sun Jul 16, 2006 12:49 am

dete wrote:I have been trying to design tactical folders for military use,

I talked to a company and they turned me down,

basically seems like they liked it, but didn't think it would
be marketable.

They are right, it's just another military folder.

why take the risk to make this one unless it has something very
unique and creative to it right?

so my question is what would make it unique and creative enough?
It still needs to be marketable, it needs to be conventional looking
if not they will think it's too weird.

any ideas?

thanx fellas. :)
Aloha dete,

Hey hang in there man. While Sal and Co. were building upon my Lava concept, I got turned down a lot when I submitted my "Non-Spyderco Designs" to them. Most of them simply had too much going for them at the time, and my designs just did not have anything "new enough" to call a halt to production on their current projects. Also, in my opinion, some of my stuff is kinda...unique. Okay, weird may be the better word for it, so these companies probably did not want to take the financial risk of producing something so..."unique". :o

Like Ed, I am a user/designer and somewhat of a builder. The only thing with my protoplastics is that they don't cut, but you can learn a lot from mock cutting. (like grappling...you don't have to ignore your partner tapping and choke him unconcious to know it works! :rolleyes: )

Also, as Mr. Schempp stated, "Does your design look like anything currently on the market?" I know...trust me I know, but it's VERY hard to come up with something that does not look like any other design. That's why I don't buy knife mags, or look at catalogs, or other knife sites...simply because I do not wanna get "influenced". AFTER I do a design, then I look around to see if anything resembles it.

DO hang in there. Fortunately I was blessed in that sal saw the potential of my design concept FOR Spyderco at the get go. However, my "non-Spyderco designs" I felt still had some merit, and I can tell you...I got shut down by at least 3-4 major companies before I landed Boker. Keep 'em coming dete, keep 'em coming!

God bless and take care :cool:
Proverbs 16:3...Commit YOUR works to the LORD, and YOUR plans WILL succeed!

"Where's the best little big knife not designed by Sal or Eric?" ~ thombrogan, WSM

Avatar by my KnifeBrother, DiAlex...C102 Adventura designer, 2005 Spyderco Forum Knife! ;)

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dete
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Postby dete » Sun Jul 16, 2006 6:12 am

thank you for your replies, lots of good stuff here,
I'm gonna read your replies over and over,

thank you for the encouragement.

I feel close... and of course.. yet so far! :D

thanx again. your words means a lot!

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dete
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Postby dete » Sun Jul 16, 2006 8:29 am

JD Spydo wrote:I would love to see a pic of your design.
Image

this is one of my designs for MBC, my military one is similar in design
but much more conventional looking all around and does not have
a fork blade.

In Martial Arts we often emphasize think of the blade as an extension
of your arm... so if it's gonna be more like your arm, then to me it makes
sense that the blade will be more like your hand, hence the
Civillian is like a finger tip/claw,
my fork design allows for compliance it grabs in a blade sort of way. :eek:

Axlis
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Postby Axlis » Sun Jul 16, 2006 9:32 am

zenheretic wrote:The quality of refusing to give up in the face of rejection is what seperates the successful from the cable TV watching couch potatoes. :)
Hey, I resent that remark!!!

Some of us have satellite, don't discriminate, Zen! :p

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argyll
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Postby argyll » Tue Jul 18, 2006 4:26 pm

Since it does not directly involve Spyderco, doesn't this and similar design postings belong on the off-topic forum?

Best regards,

Argyll
Qui non est hodie cras minus aptus erit -- Ovid (He who is not prepared today will be less so tomorrow)

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zenheretic
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Postby zenheretic » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:54 pm

dete wrote:Image

this is one of my designs for MBC, my military one is similar in design
but much more conventional looking all around and does not have
a fork blade.

In Martial Arts we often emphasize think of the blade as an extension
of your arm... so if it's gonna be more like your arm, then to me it makes
sense that the blade will be more like your hand, hence the
Civillian is like a finger tip/claw,
my fork design allows for compliance it grabs in a blade sort of way. :eek:
Where is the attachment for the rocket laucher?
Follow the mushin, but pay it no heed.

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zenheretic
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Postby zenheretic » Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:56 pm

Axlis wrote:Hey, I resent that remark!!!

Some of us have satellite, don't discriminate, Zen! :p
Satellite infers a higher form of boob tuber, one who one day go to college and earn a useful degree or something. ;)
Follow the mushin, but pay it no heed.

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Zac
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Postby Zac » Tue Jul 18, 2006 9:02 pm

bowie blade. not only is it popular with collectors but it is making a comback in the general and tactical usage field.
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