What's the appeal of ZDP-189?

[MacTech]

I've been seeing a lot of posts about the upcoming ZDP-189 based knives, and i'm wondering what's the appeal of this bladesteel, it's VG-10 with a layer of 420-J2 on both sides, right?

420-J2 is one of the *WORST* steels out there, at least IMHO, soft, nonexistent edge retention, just generally crappy steel, the only thing in it's favor is it's corrosion resistance

why would one want to layer an inferior steel on top of a far superior steel like VG-10, is it for the corrosion resistance, is the actual edge straight VG-10, or some hybrid mix of the two steels?

what's the point of ZDP-189, corrosion resistance?, if that's the case, Spyderco's own H-1 steel is light years ahead of ZDP, is simpler to make, and has decent edge retention, in addition to it's total immunity to rust....

really, what am i *not* understanding about ZDP, someone enlighten me please...

[zenheretic]

zdp is not vg10 it is zdp. ZDP sandwiched with other steels was simply a way to test the steel but keeping the costs down (1st test Caly Jr.) people liked it so second test was pure ZDP (Delica 4). Now people really like it so further tests and sprint runs for fun are cropping up. A regular run of ZDP (endura 4) is expected in the future.

[zenheretic]

Many AFI's find the ZDP to be very sharp and apparently don't need to sharpen it that often. Personally, I've only seen two slightly negative reports on the stuff so far.

[ghostrider]

I've been seeing a lot of posts about the upcoming ZDP-189 based knives, and i'm wondering what's the appeal of this bladesteel, it's VG-10 with a layer of 420-J2 on both sides, right?

420-J2 is one of the *WORST* steels out there, at least IMHO, soft, nonexistent edge retention, just generally crappy steel, the only thing in it's favor is it's corrosion resistance

why would one want to layer an inferior steel on top of a far superior steel like VG-10, is it for the corrosion resistance, is the actual edge straight VG-10, or some hybrid mix of the two steels?

what's the point of ZDP-189, corrosion resistance?, if that's the case, Spyderco's own H-1 steel is light years ahead of ZDP, is simpler to make, and has decent edge retention, in addition to it's total immunity to rust....

really, what am i *not* understanding about ZDP, someone enlighten me please...

ZDP-189 is not just VG-10 laminated with 420J2. That is another thing entirely. ZDP-189 is a relatively new steel that is different from either VG-10 or 420J2.

Also, if you ever used a Subcom F first generation, then your opinion would probably change somewhat. It is 420J2 but has very good edge retention. There is more to a blade that just the steel. Heat treat, blade and edge geomotry, and blade profile are also significant factors.

[severedthumbs]

where did you get that zdp is vg-10 from?

[Joe Talmadge]

I've been seeing a lot of posts about the upcoming ZDP-189 based knives, and i'm wondering what's the appeal of this bladesteel, it's VG-10 with a layer of 420-J2 on both sides, right?

Not right. ZDP is a different steel entirely, manufactured using a different process, and with different properties than VG-10. Among the exciting properties of ZDP-189 are hardness of 64+ Rc, versus 59-61 Rc for VG-10. That kind of hardness changes the game, and that's why people are excited about ZDP-189.

Joe

[spydersam]

I have been a steel skeptic. I watched the craziness with the caly jr and the delica. I was not going to get involved with that.

Saw an OK price on the Horn ZDP and have been amazed at how sharp and well the edge is holding up on this knife. The two steels are combined to give the final blade a broader range of physical propertys than one steel alone.

In another post on a different thread I remarked that the blade is so sharp that you actually have to recalibrate your hand when cutting thru items that you have previously cut lest you push or pull to hard and loose control of the blade.

That is my novice end user understanding and experience.

Sam

[GarageBoy]

Everyone is saying how their knife is sharper b/c it's ZDP..well, it's sharper because of the thinner edges because ZDP can hold it w/o problems

[zenheretic]

Everyone is saying how their knife is sharper b/c it's ZDP..well, it's sharper because of the thinner edges because ZDP can hold it w/o problems

That is the same thing.

[Raxim Koron]

where did you get that zdp is vg-10 from?

they could have gotten that idea because the company Cold Steel has a laminated blade nowadays that is VG-1 (is that even in the same family as VG-10, since I'd never heard of it before?) laminated w/ 420... my assumption would be that he saw VG-** and laminated, so tried to make the connection to the laminated ZDP-189 stuff.

's one of the only ways I could see people being mistaken on this myself...

[Axlis]

ZDP-189 is good stuff, I like it a bunch!

Maybe in the future, after the steel has been long-term market proven (and if it becomes readily available), it would be nifty if we could see a few select production models using the stuff.

That way everyone could "play" without paying crazy sprint run ebay premiums :) .

[Dr. Snubnose]

Also, if you ever used a Subcom F first generation, then your opinion would probably change somewhat. It is 420J2 but has very good edge retention. There is more to a blade that just the steel. Heat treat, blade and edge geomotry, and blade profile are also significant factors.

Ghostrider is correct about the Subcom F 420J2 steel, and I'll go even further to say it has excellent edge retention, sometimes I think I like the 420J2 in this knife better than the AUS8 upgrade....that being said ZDP holds an edge for an extremely long time...I have used my Caly Jr. for some time now and I still haven't had to touch it up yet on the sharpmaker's white stones... with the exception of the karambit...it was the sharpest knife out of the box I ever received from the spyderco factory...Doc :D

[dialex]

What my forespeakers said... ZDP is a distinct steel (and yes, they offer it laminated - (with ATS-34) or not). And the Subcom is indeed a great knife which performs superbly, even with that lower steel.

[JD Spydo]

I agree with what Joe Talmadge says about ZDP-189. It truly is a completely different blade steel than anything I've ever used. When you have a good edge established with ZDP it seems like it bites into the material you are cutting on it's own. Whereas even for instance when I get my S30V Yojimbo "hair shaving" sharp you still have to pull or put a slight amount of pressure to get it started.

But ZDP-189 truly has edge properties and slicing/cutting/shearing properties that I personally had never witnessed in a steel before. Now on my new ZDP Delica which has a solid ZDP-189 blade you can even feel a different texture by rubbing the steel with your fingers. It seems like it is less porous and takes a polishing/finishing better than most steels. You can even feel the density of it. You really have to work with it and test it to see what I am talking about. Let's hope that it will be feasible for Spyderco to continue to make knives with this Super Steel. :cool: :spyder:

[MacTech]

Okay, so it's clear i was *completely* wrong here, thanks for the heads-up, ZDP sounds like a really good steel, almost too good to be true.....

I guess the only way to find out what the fuss is about is to eventually pick up a ZDP blade....

[Wali]

If you can get ahold of one GET IT. :D You will not regret it. If you don't like it sell it to me :)

[TheKnifeCollector]

ZDP-189 IS amzing stuff!! And you are sooo very wrong about it!! Where on earth did you get YOUR info from????? ZDP-189 is incredibly, incredibly sharp stuff!!

[jaislandboy]

To cut with the laminated ZDP189 (like with my burgundy calypso jr.) is to know what the rage is all about (i.e. the sharpest factory spyderco edge.....at least that I've gotten my hands on).....yeah its sorta over hyped but we're all OCD perfectionist on this forum, right? (at least IMHO)! :eek: :D

[Milu]

I have a William Henry B10 with a ZDP189 blade. Rockwell hardness of 67! It's the sharpest factory edge I have ever seen.

I hope a poliwog is made in it for my edc, that would be superb :D

[Chucula]

zdp is good but i can understand a preference to softer, more easily sharpened steel. I was amazed with the numbers for zdp but after a while, I didnt care--I didnt want to use it because i didnt want to try sharpening it. I can get my kiwi really sharp, sharper than my calypso was new. It may not hold the edge but i can easily get it back.
If I had to chose a knife for survival, i would go for a zdp knife. If I had to chose for EDC, I would go for vg-10 or s30v (IIRC zdp is harder to sharpen than s30v, but i could be wrong....).

If i buy another zdp knife, it will be purely for collecting or, more likely, to resell.