Spyderco and REKAT

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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olorin15
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Spyderco and REKAT

Postby olorin15 » Sun Jun 04, 2006 11:22 pm

I remembered a while back, when REKAT was still around, :spyder: was working with them on aquiring rights to use the rolling lock. I remember there was even a prototype knife. Then something happened and the whole deal fell thru. A little while later, REKAT went out of business. More recently, BM got the rights to the rolling lock, but only put it on one of their cheaper knives.

So has it been long enough to reveal what actually happened between :spyder: and REKAT? Why did :spyder: drop the idea of getting the rolling lock for themselves. Did this failed deal have something to do with REKAT's demise? I really loved REKAT (got 3 of their knives) and wish they stayed in business. Even better if they worked with :spyder: ...
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Postby sal » Mon Jun 05, 2006 10:45 am

Hi Olorin,

Ghosts from the past.

Spyderco was working with Bob Taylor on the rolling lock and we were going to make the Bram Frank "Escalator" (later to become the Gunting), with the Rolling lock, for Rekat. We also designed and built a prototype called the "martial folder" with a Rolling lock (and indexing for rotation). We showed the "Martial folder"at the SHOT show that year.

(Bob Taylor and Bram Frank got together to make the "Escalator" after working with the Khalsa folder on kinetic opening).

Then Bob Taylor had a falling out with Bram Frank and he disco'd the "Escalator". Spyderco bought the rights from Bob to make the Escalator/Gunting, but without the Rolling lock.

It was a disappointment to Spyderco because we needed a new lock at the time and the Rolling lock was a good lock. We also didn't have time to "invent" a new lock. (As it turned out, we took the time to invent a few locks).

That's when we invented the "Compression lock" because we needed a lock for the Gunting.

We also invented the "ball bearing lock" and the "Stop-lock".

I don't think that the Spyderco/Rekat deal failing had anything to do with Rekat's closing.

sal

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Postby olorin15 » Mon Jun 05, 2006 12:08 pm

sal wrote: Ghosts from the past.
Thanks for your reply, Sal. I was always a fan of REKAT, and I was upset when the rolling lock deal fell thru. I was always wondering if it was a :spyder: / REKAT conflict, or REKAT internal.
sal wrote: That's when we invented the "Compression lock" because we needed a lock for the Gunting.
We also invented the "ball bearing lock" and the "Stop-lock".
I remember that the "compression lock" came out of the ordeal, but I had no idea the BB lock goes that far back! What's the "stop-lock"?
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Postby psimonl » Mon Jun 05, 2006 1:20 pm

In reply to sal's post, what is a stop-lock? Is it a new appellation to the famous Meerkat Phantom-Lock?!?!

Just wondering,

Simon
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Postby smcfalls13 » Mon Jun 05, 2006 2:05 pm

To echo the others, what's the stop lock? :confused:
:spyder: Scott :spyder:

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Postby dialex » Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:01 pm

Speaking of REKAT and rolling locks... Maybe some of you remember the original MBC concept:
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Postby olorin15 » Mon Jun 05, 2006 3:38 pm

dialex wrote:Speaking of REKAT and rolling locks... Maybe some of you remember the original MBC concept:
Yes I do! :)
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Questions abound.

Postby SoCal Operator » Mon Jun 05, 2006 5:01 pm

Two questions. What is a Stop Lock? And Dialex, where did you get that awesome picture? :eek: :confused:
Ask me where I got my awesome SUPERHAWK!

More like Mid-Cal now

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Postby Dannyvi » Mon Jun 05, 2006 6:57 pm

dialex wrote:Speaking of REKAT and rolling locks... Maybe some of you remember the original MBC concept:
Is that the rolling lock in the photo? I have a large folder by REKAT with that lock and a talonite blade and carbon fiber handles. I always thought of it as a side lock. Works very well!

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Postby olorin15 » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:36 am

Dannyvi wrote:Is that the rolling lock in the photo? I have a large folder by REKAT with that lock and a talonite blade and carbon fiber handles. I always thought of it as a side lock. Works very well!
Yes it is and yes it does :) The rolling lock is the strongest lock ever made imho. My Pioneer has taken some crazy abuse, like opening cans, and has come out unhurt. Back in the day, there were posts from people on bladeforums doing some really insane stuff with their REKAT's, and the knives would still hold. Amazing stuff ... too bad they are gone.
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Postby Zwaplat » Tue Jun 06, 2006 12:53 am

smcfalls13 wrote:To echo the others, what's the stop lock? :confused:
I read another post from sal yesterday or the day before. He also mentioned the stop-lock then (not sure if it was in combination with the Millie or Para).

(I just love starting hypes: A millie with a new lock?! Whoa! salsalsalsal, is this true?! what's the handle gonna be, CF? saaaaal, what's the steel going to be? sal,... :D )
Help science, join Folding@Home !

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Postby KKNIFEMAN » Tue Jun 06, 2006 11:00 am

I hope that Spyderco does come out with a knife using the Rolling Lock..its incredibly strong, easy to use and seems to be easily adaptable to most knives. A large powerful drop point would fill a niche. It seems that Benhmade and :spyder: have a good wrking relationship..besides I remeber something about that lok supporting over 1000lbs...is that correct?

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Postby dialex » Tue Jun 06, 2006 4:18 pm

Rekat used to make some interesting stuff. I miss the Sifu, or the Carnivore ;)
OTOH, I don't see any advantage of the Rolling lock over the comp lock. IMHO, the comp lock is still the "nec plus ultra" :)
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Postby DAYWALKER » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:50 am

Aloha ALL,

Welcome Olorin15...glad you remember REKAT and thanks sal for the bit o' history behind dealing with Bob.

I have an Escalator Trainer as well as a live version. The previous owner added the notches to make it look more Gunting like, and I must admit, the lock is pretty neat. I beat the cr*p outta that Escalator drone to see how strong the Rolling Lock was, and lemme tell you...it is incredible. ;)

God bless and take care ;)
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Postby anson argyris » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:08 am

SoCal Operator wrote:Two questions. What is a Stop Lock?
In his book 'The Spyderco Story', Mr. Delavigne mentions the C 06 Yachtsman
(a knife, that was never produced) and calls the lock , which was developed for
it, the 'Stop-Lock'. I'm not sure, if it's the same thing.

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REKATs

Postby Manix Guy 2 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 6:27 am

I have two REKATs a Sifu and a smaller lefty CF model which is set up very strange , clip is mounted on wrong side of handle . I am not sure where I read this maybe someone out there can help , but wasn't there an issue with lock failure with the rolling lock ? I like the renewed idea of a Spyderco with this lock , in at least 3 1/2 inch blade - Dialex ?

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Postby argyll » Wed Jun 07, 2006 11:37 am

Manix Guy 2 wrote: I am not sure where I read this maybe someone out there can help , but wasn't there an issue with lock failure with the rolling lock?
I also remember reading about lock failures, I believe it was in regards to the Sifu. Could have been quality control problem, as opposed as to a design flaw?

Best regards,

Argyll
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Postby olorin15 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 12:02 pm

The Rolling Lock was and always will be the strongest lock on the market :)
I think the Sifu may have had some QC problems - it's quite a beast of a knife (a pretty ridiculous idea from my point of view, but whatever ...) But I remeber people taking pioneers and beating them with hammers or driving over them with cars or some insanity along those lines, and the locks did not fail. I know my pioneer has taken its share of abuse and is going strong. The axis folders I have, though tough, feel nowhere near as strong as my pioneer and savant do. If I were to completely rely on a knife, it would be a REKAT (sorry :spyder: ;) )
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Thanks for refresh !

Postby Manix Guy 2 » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:58 pm

You are right it had to do with Sifu failure and the finger was pointed at QC when the ship was sinking in the sunset . As much as I like large folders the Sifu is just too much for EDC in my pocket , it was a gift from a good buddy so it has a home . I agree the lock still has a lot of potential in the market .

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Postby Joe Talmadge » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:40 pm

I remember the rolling lock problems. There were some problems early on due to spring failures, this was traced to a batch of bad springs. Since the rolling lock was never implemented with two springs (ala the axis lock's two-spring failsafe), when those bad springs started breaking, the locks were hosed. Later on, people were just seeing execution problems -- locks disengaging due to spine pressure or light spine whacks. It felt like just an overall QC problem to me, the lock didn't seem any fundamentally less sound than the axis and those things were rock solid. I'd bet a rolling lock done by Spyderco would have been amazing, especially if there's a way to re-engineer it to be ambidextrous and have that second failsafe spring. Benchmade has not tried to put a second spring in, and I don't now if there are any design issues to do so.

I don't see any theoretical difference in strength between the axis and rolling locks (or ball lock, for that matter, they all use the same basic principle), other than that the rolling lock's lock bar had a cutout so would be significantly weaker than the axis lock's bar or ball lock's ball. That said, it's hard to believe that the locking bar would give before the pivot, liners, or something else. Reliability-wise, again it seems like theoretically they should all be similar, other than the axis and ball lock's double-springs (and more reliable coil springs in the case of the ball lock) versus rolling lock single springs. Other than that, I have no understanding as to why REKAT was having some trouble with the rolling lock's reliability.

Joe


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