Bob Lum Ti folding tanto

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dedguy
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Bob Lum Ti folding tanto

Postby dedguy » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:21 pm

exactly how rare are these guys? i really like the look of the knife and it looks like it would definitly fill the "large folder" hole in my collection but i need to find one first.

on a related note anyone know how reliable this site is? they seem to have alot of rare spydies in stock at fair prices and it seems rather suspect to me.
http://cumberland-knives.com/
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Django
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Postby Django » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:34 pm

I think the thing about that website is that they don't label things as "out of stock". I may be wrong, might have been another website, so don't quote me on that.

Like the Starmate for $115? Yeah right. Maybe when it first came out. Those would be gone in a heartbeat at that price.
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JD Spydo
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Ti LUM

Postby JD Spydo » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:38 pm

I have a Titanium C-46 Bob Lum which is a permanent part of my collection. I am hoping one day that I come across a used one for EDC. They are getting a bit hard to find. Ebay is about your best bet. I usually see one or 2 about every month go on ebay. I would be very leary of the company ( cumberland) you have listed. I think you will find a few others here on the Forum to back me up on that one.

Also the G-10 handled Bob Lum Tanto is not a bad knife either. But I like about every design of Bob Lum's :cool:
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Django
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Postby Django » Sun Apr 16, 2006 8:39 pm

The Ti Lum is a framelock, right?
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JD Spydo
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Liner lock

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:43 am

Django wrote:The Ti Lum is a framelock, right?
No it is a liner lock. They are available in plain edge and combo edge. IMO the best tanto ever designed.
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dedguy
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Postby dedguy » Mon Apr 17, 2006 6:48 am

i8 will be keeping weel away from Cumberland as i have been warned about thyem. i'm going to be keeping my eye out for a Tanto and a bit of money set aside for one, just in case i do come across one. how much do they normally go for on ebay?
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JD Spydo
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A roll of the dice

Postby JD Spydo » Mon Apr 17, 2006 7:01 am

dedguy wrote:i8 will be keeping weel away from Cumberland as i have been warned about thyem. i'm going to be keeping my eye out for a Tanto and a bit of money set aside for one, just in case i do come across one. how much do they normally go for on ebay?
What you can get one for on Ebay is anyone's guess. I have seen great, classic blades go for pennies on the dollar and I have seen "not so great" knives get a huge price. There are so many variables on Ebay that it is impossible to say. IF you were lucky enough to find an individual to sell you one I would say you could probably get one from about $150 to $200. Still that's just a guess on my part because it is one Spyder that is rising in price. But then again this last weekend I had a guy tell me that he got an original Spyderco "R" knife for under $100 ( not on EBay). It just depends on how lucky you are. Because Ebay is strictly a roll of the dice for buyers & sellers alike. But good luck
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grasshopper
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cumberland

Postby grasshopper » Wed Apr 19, 2006 10:09 pm

Steer clear of these guys. Ordered a knife from them . Never showed up
and they never replied to any of my calls or e-mails.Didn't charge my card though so I guess experience is the best teacher.

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Shocked & Astounded

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:09 am

I am truly shocked & astounded that virtually nobody is singing the praises of the Titanium C-46 Bob Lum Tanto folder. This knife is one of Spyderco's finest icons. This knife represents the superb machining and the detailed quality that Spyderco is famous for. Mark my words>> you will see a day that there will be fist fights to get one of these.

The C-46 Lum Tanto is truly one of the most overlooked Spyders ever. I would say in less than a year you won't be able to touch one for less than $200. If they would ever make the fixed blade version of this knife in better blade steel than AUS-8 I would jump on one in a New York second. When are Mr. Lum and Mr. Glesser going to team up again for another Masterpiece :cool: ??????
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VWTattoo
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Lum Ti Tanto

Postby VWTattoo » Thu Apr 20, 2006 5:29 am

I agree that the Lum Ti Tanto is an uber-tank of a knife. From the hamaguri grind on the tip to the heft of the beautiful handle- this is one sweet model. I wouldn't part with mine for anything, and I hardly carry it. It's too unique not to own for an aspiring collector like myself. It has that "clack!" when locking the blade open- the sound of a secure lockup.

I can see that the prices for these have been climbing rapidly, along with anything else that Spyderco makes in Ti. I hesitate to mention a price, because I have no clue (nor desire :D ) to speculate on the prices these will bring. Get one while you can!
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J Smith
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Postby J Smith » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:20 am

I belive that site is good to go.
There are 2 cumberland knives,one good and one very bad.I have ordered from that one and had no problems.
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dedguy
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Postby dedguy » Thu Apr 20, 2006 8:33 am

i'm starting to think maybe i should go ahead and get a Chinese Folder while i can for a decent price and worry about the Tanto later. i don't have all the money in the world and i want at least one Bob Lum spyderco.
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Postby scolby » Thu Apr 20, 2006 9:16 am

[quote="JD Spydo"]I am truly shocked & astounded that virtually nobody is singing the praises of the Titanium C-46 Bob Lum Tanto folder. This knife is one of Spyderco's finest icons. This knife represents the superb machining and the detailed quality that Spyderco is famous for. Mark my words>> you will see a day that there will be fist fights to get one of these....QUOTE]

The C46 is a factory folder with a liner-lock. With a couple of exceptions (C36) & (C97 - Viele 2), Spyderco has stopped making liner-lock folders altogether. They have a good reason for this - liner locks are more prone to failure than several other popular lock designs. Many companies have abandoned them for the same reason. Many makers of handmade knives are doing the same. Very few knifemakers produce consistently reliable liner locking folders. As so-called factory makers go, I think that Klotzli is head and shoulders above the rest, although you would be hard-pressed to call them "factory" as there are only a handful of workers at Klotlzi that produce their folders.

While I personally like the appearance of the C46, it is really no different in terms of "machining" and "quality" than any other representative knife made by Spyderco during that time period. Their knives are contracted to various makers in Seki City, Japan and there is really no way to differentiate them.

Collectibility of factory folders goes up and down. When there is a perceived "rarity", prices go up among the small crowd of "collectors" that prowl web forums, ebay and knife shows. The collectibility is not inherently driven by quality, although I suspect that quality of design may be a fairly reliable indicator. However, whenever I think about Case knives and how collectible they are, I know that quality of design has nothing to do with it. :rolleyes:
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Just the way I see it

Postby JD Spydo » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:55 am

Well Scolby I have 2 comments about your response to my post :) . First of all I have heard a bunch of rhetoric about how horrible liner locks are perceived to be. I have extensively used 2 Spydercos with liner locks ( S30V G-10 Military & C-46, G-10, CE Lum Tanto folder) a great deal and I have personally not had any failures with them. Obviously there are some locking systems better engineered than others>> no argument there but I have yet to have had a Spyderco or Benchmade liner lock ever fail on me.
Now these questionable "spine whacking" tests I see done I think are just a bit unfair and unrealistic as far as ascertaining the reliability of a lock is concerned. Very few people are ever going to give a pocket knife that kind of abuse. It is not my personal favorite locking system and granted that the compression lock and Benchmade Axis lock have been proven to be slightly superior but for what I do with my C-46 G-10 CE Lum Tanto folder it works just fine for me and I have used it extensively and under some harsh conditions with no failures.
Second: As far as my observations stating that I believe that the machining on the C-46 Ti Lum is good>> well I don't back off of that one either. I have had Titanium knives of 2 other companies and I thoroughly maintain that Spyderco's work with Titanium in my opinion is better than any other production knife company. Titanium is not one of the easiest metals to machine. I just trade my Titanium ATR to a guy here on the Forum who is quite knowledgable about knives in general and he immediately told me that it was already his # 1 knife. He also said that it's quality was head & shoulders above the stainless version of that knife. I was also told by a friend of mine who is a machinist for many years that the Titanium Spydercos I have shown him are great quality in his opinion for production knives. The 3 current Ti Spyderco knives I have are great quality pieces of workmanship compared to the 2 I had which were made by other companies. Now if you're comparing them to Custom knives or some really extravagant modification that some bladesmiths do then you can say without a doubt that they might be fall second fiddle to them but even my Ti Salsa is just solid as a rock :) .
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Postby CKE » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:55 pm

Scolby....I really don't know where to begin with your post. Saying that most knifemakers can not make a reliable linerlock folder is simply not true. I am not going to take up bandwidth by naming the many custom knifemakers that are still and will continue to make liner lock folders. Look at the reviews and tests where a liner lock will "fail" a lock back will be destroyed. I am not even going to open up that can of worms either.

No offence but saying the machining process' are no different could not be further from the truth. I'll give you some stainless steel and then some Ti to grind...you tell me which one you would prefer to work with. Ti is much harder and way more costly to work with and manufacture.

Spyderco, Kershaw, Strider, Emerson....etc all turn out top notch liner locks.

I don't mean to start an argument but you need to get your facts together.

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Postby CKE » Thu Apr 20, 2006 12:56 pm

Sorry just one more thing...what custom knifemakers knives have you had fail on you...or were not up to par???
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Postby dedguy » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:07 pm

just a bit of interjection. i do believe that most steel is HARDER than titantium but titanium is TOUGHER. there's a distinct difference there. it's why you can't make knife blades or gun barrels out of titantium.
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Postby scolby » Thu Apr 20, 2006 1:35 pm

My post was intended to address the hyperbole expressed in the quoted post by JD Spydo.

I don't come onto the Spyderco forum too much any more in part become so many of the posts are self-referential. Now and then, when I do check in, I find a post like that one that are just too annoying to overlook. I probably take it too seriously, but back in the olden days (pulls himself up in rocking chair), there was often more content and less smoke blown.

CKE - I made no reference to the quality of the machining work done by whatever Seki City manufacturer made the C46. My point is that there is no easily distinguished difference between the machining work done on the C46 versus other Seki City manufactured Spyderco designs being made in the same time period. Spyderco has a pretty good quality control program as regards the contracted pieces being reviewed before they are shipped to dealers. If you look at other Seki-produced knives from that period, you will find little to distinguish the C46 from other models, in my opinon. I have, at one time or another, owned every model that Spyderco has ever produced, even many of the "rare" versions, so at the very least, I think I am making an informed observation.

In regard to liner locks, you overlooked my simple observation that Spyderco has moved away from virtually all liner lock designs and subsequent production. Spyderco prides themselves on function and durability, liner locking knives are not the ideal design to achieve that goal.

Finally, although I made no mention of failures on custom knives - since you bring it up, I had a Bob Lum Mini-Stalker that failed on me with no spine pressure whatsoever. I sent the knife back to Bob and after shipping costs and repair costs totalling about $50, the lock was repaired, but I sold it thereafter. I went through four Bob Terzuola liner locking knives and found them to be loose in general and two of them failed easily. Two of these four were "brand" new knives, the others were second hand. I returned two of them and sent the other two in for repair - I got rid of those too. I bought two different Kansei Matsuno knives that both had locks that failed without pressure. I returned them to the dealers. There are others, but you get the picture.

Compare to that my staticstics on failed locks of the following designs (factory or "custom"):
Mid Locks 0
Lockbacks 0
Axis Locks 0
Button (or "plunge") Locks 0
Integral Liner Locks 1 (Kevin Wilkins)
Grant Hawk locks 0
Stud locks 0

So, I speak with a little authority on this subject. Liner locks are tricky, easily defeated with dirt, lint, poor construction or adjustment, bad machining, minor abuse, etc., relative to many other more robust lock designs. Liner locks continue to be popular with custom makers because they sell better than lockbacks and they are easy to produce. They are also not subject to patent, as many newer lock designs are, so you don't have to negotiate a license fee. They are, however, very difficult to produce well. Just go through a "custom" knife show and handle several hundred pieces. The variation in action from maker to maker will amaze you. Some makers like Kit Carson and Phil Boguszewski make truly superior locking liner folders. However, I would be just as happy to see them make button lock versions of the same designs.

If you are looking for a low maintenance, robust, high-strength lock in a folder, I wouldn't choose a liner lock as my lock of first choice. If you like high-stength, low-drag, you might want to look at Axis or button locks.
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Postby jaislandboy » Thu Apr 20, 2006 11:52 pm

The Titanium Lum Folding Tanto is a personal fave of mine....one of my rarer spydies....but to me the knife is a functional work of art!
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Postby zenheretic » Fri Apr 21, 2006 2:06 am

A lot of stuff going on in this post...where to start, where not to go?

Titanium or no, if a person loves Spydercos, then it is worth it to get at least one Lum...as Brian says, "functional work of art". Titanium or plain jane Steel. I don't think many sing the praises of titanium as likely many haven't had the pleasure of owning a Ti Lum or any other Titanium Spydie.

As I've said before, personal experience is not statiscally significant. That means that anyone's personal experiences don't mean squat to the overall market, it just sucks for that person. But it is my personal gut feeling that the overall market may be shifting away from liner locks, as many are voicing their disdain for the design. Perhaps Spyderco is attempting to predict future market desires and phase out liner locks, not due to any flaws in that locking system, but rather due to predicted future sales. Considering Spyderco's record for testing and consideration for safety, I don't believe they would have continued to sell the Military for all these years if it was an unsafe locking product. I do believe they plan to change to a different lock in the future, but again I believe it is due to shifting market forces, not safety.
Also if it was an issue with safety, Spyderco wouldn't have recently introduced 4 new knives using that locking system: Spin, Crow, Raven, Volpe. These go along with the military, cricket, spyker, and viele ii,

From what I have read about liner locks, it is a great lock, but only if it is made correctly. Making it correctly can be challenging for some makers.

Peace out Knife Brothers. ;)

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