Just need to vent a little..
In the last week, I've come across two folks who have aquired Guntings, and then proceed to cut themselves while attempting non-guided or instructed kin-ops. One claimed the knife was "inherently dangerous", the other cut himself five or six times before becoming "afraid" of the knife and put it away.
My gripe is if these guys are hearing about kin-ops and trying them out; why aren't they listening to all the safety warnings!??
If You took a sampling of Gunting related threads, my bet is about 80% of them contain a mention about safe handling of the G. Heck, Bram's posts almost always contain the comment "Get the Drone".
I really like the guys who say they can't afford the drone, but somehow find a way to obtain other $100 plus folders. The only worst attitude is the one that goes "the drone is just a way to get you to spend more money".
Today, I extended an offer of help to a new Gunting owner, just so he might prevent hurting himself further. I think I'm doing it more to lessen negative comments about the Gunting, that to help this guy become adept.
I think that responsible Gunting owners should chant in unison "Get the Drone, Train Smart, Train safe".
End Vent.
-Seth
Edited by - seth on 8/22/2001 9:04:52 PM
Forget the Black Gunting... Get the trainer
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bladebroker
- Member
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Lower Alabama USA
- Contact:
Ditto!!!!!
I INSIST on the customer including the intro tape with a single "Live" Gunting purchase. Most of the time I am successful.
I've tried to offer to sell the drone 1st and then let a customer return it later when they were ready for a live blade. Turned down 100%, zero for 10 offers so I stopped that.
It seemed like a geed idea at the time but the market does what it wants.
Terry Prichard aka the bladebroker <http://stores.andale.com/bladebroker>
I INSIST on the customer including the intro tape with a single "Live" Gunting purchase. Most of the time I am successful.
I've tried to offer to sell the drone 1st and then let a customer return it later when they were ready for a live blade. Turned down 100%, zero for 10 offers so I stopped that.
It seemed like a geed idea at the time but the market does what it wants.
Terry Prichard aka the bladebroker <http://stores.andale.com/bladebroker>
Seth you get the GOLD Spydie award..
your attitude is commendable and I appreciate your trying to educate people..
there should be more like you!
I never understand those that refuse to read directions that come with an item..or listen to those that know..or insist that they know best...
But they are out there..
Yes. I bet that almost all of my Gunting posts tell people to use a DRONE..get the tapes..get training...
They might force me to implement something like you can buy a single DRONE but you have to get a drone along with a live blade..as a set ONLY...
hmmm let me look down this barrel of a gun and pull the trigger to see if its loaded..
hmmm let me pick up that glowing coal it looks cool..
hmmm electricity inside this thing? no way.. I can safely stick this screwdriver into that outlet..watch!
hmmm vent a radiator? why? it won't explode if i open the cap!
Nothing on the knife says DO THIS..but they do..and geeeee the knife is Spyderco sharp..funny thing about that..
Theres nothing dangerous about the knife but the people who assume they know how to do it the flashy way..
They're the same ones who immediately tried double flip openings with a balisong and sliced themselves to ribbons..and of course that made a balisong a dangerous knife..
a poor design..
Those that aren't taught and don't understand blame the tool..
again..thanks Seth for your support and trying to teach others...
your attitude is commendable and I appreciate your trying to educate people..
there should be more like you!
I never understand those that refuse to read directions that come with an item..or listen to those that know..or insist that they know best...
But they are out there..
Yes. I bet that almost all of my Gunting posts tell people to use a DRONE..get the tapes..get training...
They might force me to implement something like you can buy a single DRONE but you have to get a drone along with a live blade..as a set ONLY...
hmmm let me look down this barrel of a gun and pull the trigger to see if its loaded..
hmmm let me pick up that glowing coal it looks cool..
hmmm electricity inside this thing? no way.. I can safely stick this screwdriver into that outlet..watch!
hmmm vent a radiator? why? it won't explode if i open the cap!
Nothing on the knife says DO THIS..but they do..and geeeee the knife is Spyderco sharp..funny thing about that..
Theres nothing dangerous about the knife but the people who assume they know how to do it the flashy way..
They're the same ones who immediately tried double flip openings with a balisong and sliced themselves to ribbons..and of course that made a balisong a dangerous knife..
a poor design..
Those that aren't taught and don't understand blame the tool..
again..thanks Seth for your support and trying to teach others...
Terry..Thank you as well..You go out of your way,,putting yourself @ financial risk to teach the buyers about the GUNTING..and they still don't bother to learn nor take you up on your kind offer..
Some people don't get it and never will...
I need more of you guys trying to get the message out there..
I didn't see one person get cut @ any of our seminars..Terry did you? even @ Beach Blade..with a bunch of crazy martial artists no one got cut and there were alot of live blades!!!
BUY A DRONE..BUY A DRONE..BUY A DRONE
Some people don't get it and never will...
I need more of you guys trying to get the message out there..
I didn't see one person get cut @ any of our seminars..Terry did you? even @ Beach Blade..with a bunch of crazy martial artists no one got cut and there were alot of live blades!!!
BUY A DRONE..BUY A DRONE..BUY A DRONE
I don't understand those that won't buy a Drone..
I've seen it..
I've heard it...
"Oh its too much money..Hey did you see my new custom folder? My new DVD? hey man i went out to a great concert..mega bucks dude!
HUH? buy a Drone?? gee thats a lot of money for something that won't cut you...
Who needs one anyways!"
I've seen it..
I've heard it...
"Oh its too much money..Hey did you see my new custom folder? My new DVD? hey man i went out to a great concert..mega bucks dude!
HUH? buy a Drone?? gee thats a lot of money for something that won't cut you...
Who needs one anyways!"
Hello Guys,
I must say yes its true buy a drone I have more then one and play every day with my drone its funny you can play every time and can not cut you.
You can but the drone on the table and your childs can not cut himself. You can play day and night and you can not cut you.
Use a drone I say every people the talk to me in Germany who say what a cool knive buy the drone and then buy the life version.
By Martin Germany
Thank you again to Bram to give us so an fantastic knive.
I must say yes its true buy a drone I have more then one and play every day with my drone its funny you can play every time and can not cut you.
You can but the drone on the table and your childs can not cut himself. You can play day and night and you can not cut you.
Use a drone I say every people the talk to me in Germany who say what a cool knive buy the drone and then buy the life version.
By Martin Germany
Thank you again to Bram to give us so an fantastic knive.
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jim_l_clifton
- Member
- Posts: 60
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Seth,
The one that gets me is when they tell me,"I don't need a drone,I'm too coordinated to cut myself!You think I'm Stupid?? Gave some demos to a client, said it looked cool,asked to see my live G,started to open it on his leg,startled him by grabbing him & saying "DON'T DO THAT"! Showed him with a drone how close he came to cutting himself!Scratch one client!
jim
The one that gets me is when they tell me,"I don't need a drone,I'm too coordinated to cut myself!You think I'm Stupid?? Gave some demos to a client, said it looked cool,asked to see my live G,started to open it on his leg,startled him by grabbing him & saying "DON'T DO THAT"! Showed him with a drone how close he came to cutting himself!Scratch one client!
jim
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bladebroker
- Member
- Posts: 50
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Lower Alabama USA
- Contact:
Jim,
I have to nod my head when I read that. I sold a "live" blade, drone and a tape at a show to a man. Gave him a the do's and dont's. Told him to review the tape when he got home.
I felt good about him and his understanding of the tools I placed with him. You can tell where this is going but it twists just a little.
About 2 hours later he shows up with his friend (read:tactical expert)in tow. He wants me to show him some moves. Actually he wanted me to hurt him, make him drop to his knees. I didn't like how this was setting up so I started out with some simple manipulation of the tool, drawing, opening, closing, etc. Only the drone was visable at this time.
Before I know it this friend takes the live blade from the back-pack of my customer and..... Yep, you guessed it. He announces "Its much easier like this" and proceeds to ventilate a perfectly good pair of Levis.
That wasn't the end of it but the rest was less interesting.
Moral: Live Guntings are NOT TOYS, play with your DRONE.
Terry Prichard aka the bladebroker <http://stores.andale.com/bladebroker>
I have to nod my head when I read that. I sold a "live" blade, drone and a tape at a show to a man. Gave him a the do's and dont's. Told him to review the tape when he got home.
I felt good about him and his understanding of the tools I placed with him. You can tell where this is going but it twists just a little.
About 2 hours later he shows up with his friend (read:tactical expert)in tow. He wants me to show him some moves. Actually he wanted me to hurt him, make him drop to his knees. I didn't like how this was setting up so I started out with some simple manipulation of the tool, drawing, opening, closing, etc. Only the drone was visable at this time.
Before I know it this friend takes the live blade from the back-pack of my customer and..... Yep, you guessed it. He announces "Its much easier like this" and proceeds to ventilate a perfectly good pair of Levis.
That wasn't the end of it but the rest was less interesting.
Moral: Live Guntings are NOT TOYS, play with your DRONE.
Terry Prichard aka the bladebroker <http://stores.andale.com/bladebroker>
I recently visited my local Spyderco dealer where I held in my hands, for the very first time, a Bram Frank designed Gunting! As my eyes glazed over and drool started pouring from my mouth, except for his lack of familiarity with the Gunting, an otherwise very knowledgeable salesman asked me what the purpose of the ramp was. I answered in a rather affected knowing manner, “Well, all I can really say is that the ramp itself has a number of functions, one is for pinching,” where I proceeded to demonstrate very lightly this principle, “the other is for pressure points,” which I didn’t demonstrate, “and a third is for what they call ‘kinetic opening.” Mind you, I’m holding the black handled model in my hand and somewhere in the back of my mind screamed, “Stop!” I then said rather sheepishly, “Er, um, why don’t you hand me the red handled one right there.” Now with the black handled model safely back under glass, and a red handled drone in my hand, I proceeded to clumsily demonstrate kinetic opening on my own thigh (thank you Bram for those not so subtle warnings that somehow surfaced at the right time for me to avoid severing a major artery ;o). Consequently, and despite my embarrassment, the pair is now mine!
Bildrac
Bildrac
Hi,
I am new to this board and cannot strongly urge enough, that one get the drone until one feels comfortable enough to use the G. without doing onesself a mischief (or worse), my favorite pair of shorts have an extra vent that wasn't there before. I would like to know where to get materials to help me learn to use the knife without injuring myself, as I sell knives the cost of the drone is not an issue. however if anyone can help with where to buy tapes or other materials I would be greatful.
TIA,
Lloyd
I am new to this board and cannot strongly urge enough, that one get the drone until one feels comfortable enough to use the G. without doing onesself a mischief (or worse), my favorite pair of shorts have an extra vent that wasn't there before. I would like to know where to get materials to help me learn to use the knife without injuring myself, as I sell knives the cost of the drone is not an issue. however if anyone can help with where to buy tapes or other materials I would be greatful.
TIA,
Lloyd
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thorin hammer
- Member
- Posts: 180
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Topeka, Kansas USA
All your stories and ranting got through to me a while back, and a poke on the pinkie from the Gunting. And I have a Trainer in the mail. Next on the list TRAINING. And no I am not using or caring the Gunting until I get the training. When I first started to read about the Gunting I said to myself," I'm going to learn how to use it." But of course got the live blade first. And preceded to poke my pinkie with it, then promptly quit messing around with the live blade. I stated to learn more about the Trainer. Yes, I balked at paying so much for a non-sharp Spyderco, but realized that it is just as valuable a tool just in a different way. The live Gunting is now in my display box and is going to stay there until I can USE the Trainer.
Thanks guys.
P. S. Bram I hope that some day I will be honored by you teaching me about the Gunting, but until then, the tapes will have to do.
Some laws permit, what honor dose not.
Thanks guys.
P. S. Bram I hope that some day I will be honored by you teaching me about the Gunting, but until then, the tapes will have to do.
Some laws permit, what honor dose not.
Levans- Here's some info on the training tapes, Copied from one of Bram's Post:
you can contact Spyderco,...
or SPYDERCO SFO..1-800-828-1925
or go to the online store..on this site...
Or VideoQuest 1-800-340-9664
or videos4selfdefense.com
or Edges2@ www.trainingblades.com...
Good Luck on your traning,
Seth
you can contact Spyderco,...
or SPYDERCO SFO..1-800-828-1925
or go to the online store..on this site...
Or VideoQuest 1-800-340-9664
or videos4selfdefense.com
or Edges2@ www.trainingblades.com...
Good Luck on your traning,
Seth
Seth...what would you like to say thank you..HMMMMMMM
you are setting a great example..
Terry doesn't count cause hes one of my personal flock..ROFL..
ohh poor Blade Broker alias 4cycle..
Yes..I hope to see you soon my cycling friend..
I think that the WEB ( read that SFO-Spyderco) is going to have me in November to do a two day Gunting seminar..
you guys n gals need to check with SFO..
conrats to all of you that have seen the light..
Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement have called the Drone "the best less than lethal tool ever designed"..hmm our little trainer drone..cool..
you are setting a great example..
Terry doesn't count cause hes one of my personal flock..ROFL..
ohh poor Blade Broker alias 4cycle..
Yes..I hope to see you soon my cycling friend..
I think that the WEB ( read that SFO-Spyderco) is going to have me in November to do a two day Gunting seminar..
you guys n gals need to check with SFO..
conrats to all of you that have seen the light..
Guns & Weapons for Law Enforcement have called the Drone "the best less than lethal tool ever designed"..hmm our little trainer drone..cool..
Don't be the guy that spends big $$$ on a custom 1911, stocks it with Federal Hydra-shoks, stuffs it into a Mitch Rosen IWB rig, but never practices. <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Get the Glock, talk to Skunkworks about a kydex rig, burn the $$$ difference in practice ammo and quality training. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Pros know that training makes the difference.
If the Gunting is going to be used as a utility tool, then the drone won't matter much. If it is to be part of your personal safety system, the drone is everything!
Is it better to spend your money travelling to Golden, CO to train with Mr. Janich or Bram and carry a Endura, or is it better just to stuff that live Gunting into your pocket and call it a day?
The people that complain about the price of quality training equipment probably don't (I hope) look for cars offering discount air bags or seat belts. Why is one less important than the other?
Steve
Get the Glock, talk to Skunkworks about a kydex rig, burn the $$$ difference in practice ammo and quality training. <img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
Pros know that training makes the difference.
If the Gunting is going to be used as a utility tool, then the drone won't matter much. If it is to be part of your personal safety system, the drone is everything!
Is it better to spend your money travelling to Golden, CO to train with Mr. Janich or Bram and carry a Endura, or is it better just to stuff that live Gunting into your pocket and call it a day?
The people that complain about the price of quality training equipment probably don't (I hope) look for cars offering discount air bags or seat belts. Why is one less important than the other?
Steve
of course the question would be better asked in another post/thread than one talking about the use of trainer drones..and the idiocy of using a live blade for training or demoing..
so next time if you have a legitimate question thats NOT on topic..please make a new thread..
and your question was legitimate and a good one!
so next time if you have a legitimate question thats NOT on topic..please make a new thread..
and your question was legitimate and a good one!
Bram, you see it's like this... what happened was, after I demonstrated the use of the ramp using the red handled drone (and to my chagrin, remembering at the last moment that the other one would have bitten me), the proprietor of the shop turned to help another customer... well, since I like shiny pointy Spyderco things, and... well? Actually, my wife was standing there holding my 9-month old with our dripping-wet 4 year old in tow, who had just fallen into the mall's food-court fountain. My embarrased red shade turned into a deep purple as I sheepishly asked my dealer friend to set them aside for me until I could come back and pay for 'em. I picked them up today, set #090. I was already aware of the numbers significance, I was just trying to drum up a bit o'envy to counter my earlier experiences <huge grin>. Oh, the weather in Southern California's been real nice for the past couple of days, and should continue through the weekend. I hope you enjoy your stay out here for the seminar.
Edited by - bildrac on 8/24/2001 10:04:51 PM
Edited by - bildrac on 8/24/2001 10:04:51 PM