Spyderco Native's blade big enough for self defense?

[Smudge]

I am looking for a somewhat cheap and durable knife to carry for, among other reasons, the possible use of self defense. I am looking at the. I have noticed that the cutting edge on this blade is only a little larger than 2.50" and that the entire blade is just over 3". I am also looking at a Benchmade Mini Grip which has a cutting edge of almost 3". If I am buying this knife to have in case I need to use it to defend myself should I be looking at a larger blade? Thanks

[vampyrewolf]

From a purely theoretical standpoint, I'd say having a knife you are comfortable with is more important than having a larger one. A knife should be felt before it is seen. If the SHTF I'd be more comfortable with my stainless pe dragonfly with all of 2.25" of blade than my frn se endura with 4" of blade. But I've been using my 'fly for over 4yrs and can use it blindfolded.

I personally prefer my 21" ASP for defense. Much more variation is the outcome. Everything from deterant to crushing bones to killing them, all depending on where you hit(how hard you hit is not something to guess on when SHTF). My baton is well worn, and the only blood thats been on my knives is my own(as far as I know).

[zenheretic]

Be prepared for a multitude of various semi-conflicting opinions that will all be right. The words training, mindset, and awareness will likely be used. Several models will be mentioned. Most will advise for a Spyderco (this is a Spyderco forum after all)

Either will defend just fine. Pick the one your hand likes the best.

[TurnerIII]

Enough blade? Heck a pen,keys or a boot could be used in a self defense moment.

I would have to agree with others - having a sharp claw that just appears is worth a lot. And training, training, training make thinkgs happen without too much thought involved. If it fits your hand and gives you confidence you are also now not looking/acting like food to the bad guys - which helps keep trouble away.

If you know you are going to a knife fight bring a RIFLE - have your friends come too and bring their rifles.......

[greencobra]

I wouldn't even go there without some kind of training. If you're needing to ask the question you did, I suspect you might have little to none.

I have no training in this area myself and my first thought is **** yeah, it's plenty big enough. But with me, having no SD training with a knife, I'd employ the slash and run for my life technique.

[Smudge]

I wouldn't even go there without some kind of training. If you're needing to ask the question you did, I suspect you might have little to none.

I have no training in this area myself and my first thought is **** yeah, it's plenty big enough. But with me, having no SD training with a knife, I'd employ the slash and run for my life technique.

I received a very small amount of training in the police academy. I would use a knife as a weapon only when my primary gun and backup gun had failed me or if for some reason I could not access either gun. If I am in the position to use a knife, which for a cop is use of dead, I would *likely* use a gun first. So, I have very slight training in knife fighting and would use a knife probably as a very last resort.

[catamount]

An off-the-beaten-path choice for you to consider is the Gray FRN Wayne Goddard. I love mine.



It is light weight, feels great in my hand, and has a larger blade (3 5/8") that should work nicely in a last ditch SD situation.

It is a discontinued model, but you can get one for < $50 on eBay, or here:

http://www.gpknives.com/item/Spyderco-G ... eight.html

[Axlis]

Have you handled the Native yet? Seems like it would do a pretty good job of stabbing somebody if you ask me :eek: . The only thing I would be concerned about with the Native in a SD situation is it's harder to access spyderhole. Not only is it a small one, but it is a little blocked by the handle. Probably wouldn't matter if a person is very used to the knife, but I wouldn't want to fumble around opening it while the bad guy has his way with me. If you want to spend some cash, look into the Spyderco Civilian- designed for people with minimal knife training. The Civilian is not good for EDC tasks, it's sole purpose is to tear someone up :spyder: .

[Joe Talmadge]

I wouldn't even go there without some kind of training. If you're needing to ask the question you did, I suspect you might have little to none.

Just as a counterpoint to my friend greencobra ... a knife is an extremely primal, instinctual weapon, and untrained people can (and often do) cause horrific damage with one. Given a highly trained fighter empty-hand versus a doofus with a knife, I'd bet on the doofus almost every time. If you have the will and mindset to defend yourself, a knife with be an effective equalizer for you, training or not. By all means seek training and always seek education, but if you're sure a knife is a good choice for you, real life says it will be effective if your will to live is strong enough to drive you.

The bigger the better provided it's legal in your area. But 3" is easily enough to defend yourself with.

Joe

[Jimd]

The Native is my favorite Spydie. I believe it would serve for self-defense in a pinch. However, I prefer a bit larger blade for this purpose, if possible.

Targets to go for: Eyes, face, neck. Secondary targets: arms/hands of attacker. What stops attackers is blood pressure drop. To do that, you need to put holes in the circulatory system to drop that pressure. Even then, I've seen people continue to fight for an amazingly long time, even when fatally stabbed.

For those who quote the "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" mantra....I maintain that they've never been involved in a knife fight. In CQB, the knife can be devestating if used correctly by a properly motivated, aggressive user.

Get more training if possible, and good luck.

[Michael Cook]

:spyder: Jim raises a good point. If you intend to use a thrust/point style the native isn't large enough to reliably hit a vital target.Thrust fighters want a minimum of 5 inches.

Small blades work better with edge/slash methods that effect bio-mechanical cutting of the flexor tendons, biceps/triceps and quadriceps. A dodo or spot won't penetrate a sternum for a heart thrust but it'll easily lay open a mans thigh or bicep to the bone. :spyder:

[Qship]

My wife carries a native, trains with another with the edge and point ground off and polished. Works fine. A Yojimbo is better, cuts deeper, has a better lock, but the native fits her hand.

The penetration of a blade may be quite a bit deeper than the length of the blade because unsupported flesh, like the stomach, has considerable give.

Qship

[TurnerIII]

"If you know you are going to a knife fight bring a RIFLE"

For everything else there is Spyderco (tm) !! :spyder:


For me nothing beats the Military - but the Lil Temp comes close. Hack, slash, poke and run - works for me. There are enough indenspencable men in the grave yard already :cool: .

[Joe Talmadge]

:spyder: Jim raises a good point. If you intend to use a thrust/point style the native isn't large enough to reliably hit a vital target.Thrust fighters want a minimum of 5 inches.

Michael, speaking as someone well-entrenched in the "thrust" end of the style, I can tell you that we believe 3" is big enough to hit about any vital target. When the knife goes in hard, body tissues compress. Just like Mike Janich can take his 3" Ronin and make a slash that goes through 4" of roast and actually hits the supporting dowel underneath, a hard thrust will penetrate much more deeply than the blade size due to the flesh compressing massively under the force of the strike. And a hard thrust will penetrate more deeply than a hard slash.

I don't think you'll find people in thrusting styles who think 3" isn't enough. Longer is better, but 3" is sufficient. There are guys who go around talking about a minimum of 4"-5", but at this point it seems to be just a random number some people throw out, who haven't looked at what happens when a knife hits.

Joe

[zenheretic]

The Native is my favorite Spydie. I believe it would serve for self-defense in a pinch. However, I prefer a bit larger blade for this purpose, if possible.

Targets to go for: Eyes, face, neck. Secondary targets: arms/hands of attacker. What stops attackers is blood pressure drop. To do that, you need to put holes in the circulatory system to drop that pressure. Even then, I've seen people continue to fight for an amazingly long time, even when fatally stabbed.

For those who quote the "Don't bring a knife to a gunfight" mantra....I maintain that they've never been involved in a knife fight. In CQB, the knife can be devestating if used correctly by a properly motivated, aggressive user.

Get more training if possible, and good luck.

Hi Smudge, like I said lots of stuff will be said, all pretty good but contradictory...Jim quoted here has likely seen plenty of knife fights...as he works in corrections.

[Jimd]

Hi Smudge, like I said lots of stuff will be said, all pretty good but contradictory...Jim quoted here has likely seen plenty of knife fights...as he works in corrections.

Zen, I've seen a few on T.V.. :p LOL!

Seriously, I've seen a couple dozen. Over the years, I've lost count, which is really not that important anyway.

From what I've observed in real life, stabs work best for stopping the baddies faster than slashes. In an all-out, life-or-death edged weapons battle, it's pretty unlikely that you're going to be able to target certain tendons to cut, or any other pin-point targets, as they'll be moving quickly, and the bad guy will be trying to kill you as well. "Defanging The Snake" might work in some situations, or it might not. I've never seen it used in an actual knife fight.

Every person that I've seen killed with a knife that I can recall was stabbed to death, not sliced. I'm not saying slices don't work, just that stabbing is definitely more effective.

One guy I saw severely stabbed kept trying to get up to go after his attacker, and had to be held down by officers as they tried to get him to the prison's dispensary. He died as I watched them wheeling him down the hallway.

Two things I've learned by observation firsthand:
1. The human body is capable of absorbing ridiculous amounts of punishment.
2. The human body holds one **** of a lot of blood!

[zenheretic]

Hey Jim I have to pose the question now that I consider the matter: I assume most if not all the knife fights you've witnessed were with prison shanks...did any have an edge? I guess there is the old razor blade melted into a toothbrush handle but what have you seen used?

Also, although impossible to answer, I wonder how many of the thugs doing the stabbing had prior training/experience...or were they going by instinct. I kinda feel that stabbing is more instinctual than slashes. Any opinions from any LEOs, COs, or EMRs? Well anybody, but curious what folks have seen.

[Jimd]

Hey Jim I have to pose the question now that I consider the matter: I assume most if not all the knife fights you've witnessed were with prison shanks...did any have an edge? I guess there is the old razor blade melted into a toothbrush handle but what have you seen used?

Also, although impossible to answer, I wonder how many of the thugs doing the stabbing had prior training/experience...or were they going by instinct. I kinda feel that stabbing is more instinctual than slashes. Any opinions from any LEOs, COs, or EMRs? Well anybody, but curious what folks have seen.

I doubt that most had "formal" training, per se. I do know that they "network" information, though, and train each other in the arts of killing. I'd agree that stabbing is more instinctual; on the flip side, I've seen plenty of slashes on the inside.

To answer the first part of your question, what kind of edges have I seen? All kinds. Some prison shanks are merely sharpened rods that will poke a round hole (these are really difficult to close up).

Others are made just like factory knives, and have edges on them. And yep, there are razor blade knives, too. Contrary to the belief of some, prison shanks are not always smallish; during my first stabbing, in which I almost became a victim, the knife blade was at least 10" long, if not over a foot. I don't believe it had an edge. The inmate stabbed nearly died (and I nearly died from fright!).

Some shanks are made by removing the push rods from the sink in their cells. Others are fashioned by bending and breaking off thin pieces of their bunk beds and sharpening them on the concrete floor. Concrete, by the way, works great for sharpening.

We used to have a small engine repair shop inside the wall, and I saw one really huge shank (more like a machete!) made from a lawn mower blade, and it was sharpened in the metal shop. This thing would literally take an arm off.

Also saw an axe that they made, not sure what the metal came from, but it was a doozie!

I actually have some pictures of a display case full of shanks that I'm going to submit with a magazine article one of these days. I just need to get the film developed. When I do, I'll post pics here so y'all can see what they look like. They're not finished quite as nicely as the Spydies we own, but they get the job done.

Other weapons can be made by taking a padlock and placing it in a sock to make a mace (batteries are also often used), this is called a "Lock-In-A-Sock". Shoelaces are also sometimes used for the flail, in place of the sock. A pillow case can also work.

Plastic wrap can be melted down into a pointy, hard little knife.
Newspaper, when wetted, is shaped into a pointy spear, and when it dries, it's pointy enough to harm someone. A sergeant I know got Hepatitis from an inmate when the crook made a spear like this, and then rubbed his feces onto the point and then stabbed the sarge while he was in The Hole.

A ball-point pen can also be used to launch darts. When taken apart, the pen shaft is sharpened, re-inserted, and the spring launches the dart, which is often dipped in HIV or Hepatitis-infected blood and aimed at officers.

****, I guess I could write a book on improvised weapons. I guess I **** near just did! :rolleyes:

[zenheretic]

Look forward to the pictures. I have seen a bunch of shanks/weapons in the prisons I've toured...fascinating in the creative manners in which a bored criminal will fashion destructive devices.

[OuchThatsSharp]

Check out this site for a review on the Native.

http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Set/ ... iverev.htm