H1: am I missing something?

[thom lambert]

Lately, it seems that there have been requests for almost every spyderco to be realeased with an H1 blade (OK, lately there has been a cry for virtually every possible handle/blade permutation, but that is a different thread :rolleyes: ).

I was lucky enough to test one of the first production knives with H1 - not a Spyderco - for well over a year. While I was impressed with it's corrosion resistance, I was by no means impressed with it's edge-hold. To me, it's edge hold was inline with steels like 440C and Aus8. After testing the knife, I felt that I would prefer to have any of several other stainless steels on a whitewater knife (freshwater, not saltwater): 154, S30, VG10....

So, am I missing something? Was the heat-treat on mine not up to par? I can see H1 for saltwater applications, or those rare individuals that have a body chemistry that "eats" other steels; but I don't see it as a desirable EDC steel.

Maybe all the recent requests are in the "It's new and I've gotta have it!" category.

Thom

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha Thom Lambert!

Well...I can only speak for myself, but I rather have the ease of resharpening as opposed to a lasting edge that is "not so easy" to resharpen. Also comes into play the "forgiving edge"...

I EDC'd exclusively a Merlin, Delica, Endura, and Dragonfly all of the AUS8 generation, and in HI, they handled very well. So well that in another thread on favorite steels, I chose AUS8.
This H1, for *me* has been a God send. It is like the "Glock of knives" so to speak. :D True, edge retention is not as long lasting as the steels you have mentioned, but I can bring H1 back with sometimes just a stroping on my slipper if need be, and I was able to resharpen on a rock I found on a beach...so I dunno. I accept the compromise. As an EDC "beater" type steel, I like it. :)

*Maybe* the heat treat on the H1 you sampled may not have been treated the same as :spyder: 's?

God bless and take care :cool:

[dsvirsky]

I think you're right about the "new and gotta' have it" aspect, but I also think there's something more. I fully admit to being a steel snob, but I like H1 for the same reason a lot of slip joint owners like 1095 @ 56 HRC -- it takes a nice edge that can be maintained with minimal effort. Add to that the absolute rust resistance, without the high sticker price of Talonite or Stellite, and you have a winner.

[jon shannow]

I can bring H1 back with sometimes just a stroping on my slipper if need be, and I was able to resharpen on a rock I found on a beach

:eek:
what is this arcane magik you speak of :p
you have skills there Chad
i am still getting the hang of the 204

[Zwaplat]

Doesn't H1 get harder with use too? So, after a few sharpenings, it doesn't have to be sharpened as often as before?

[999]

Easy to keep sharp as it strops well on card or my jeans. I like the fact that I don't have to look after it at all, worrying about keeping it clean or dry. It does seem to work rather well with serrations too.

[i.v]

first of all, if i understood correctly, H1 is not heat treated at all, it goes through a different hardening process.
as for the "it new & i gotta have it".. well it used to be, but not any more in my opinion.
H1 becomes harder & improves on edge holding the more you use & sharpen, even though it will not transform from aus6 like holding to s30v like holding, so far for me this process is very very noticable.
the ease of sharpening remains amazing & it does seem to have a trick with serrations (don't understand that one myself).
combine all of these features with the corroasion resistance & as dsvirsky said, you have a winner.
i think H1's properties don't come to light unless you seriously use it, so give it a go & have fun :)

[Axlis]

Everyone else has covered my thoughts and opinions, now where's the Tasman!? :p

[JD Spydo]

[quote="thom lambert"]Lately, it seems that there have been requests for almost every spyderco to be realeased with an H1 blade (OK, lately there has been a cry for virtually every possible handle/blade permutation, but that is a different thread :rolleyes: ).

I was lucky enough to test one of the first production knives with H1 - not a Spyderco - for well over a year. While I was impressed with it's corrosion resistance, I was by no means impressed with it's edge-hold. To me, it's edge hold was inline with steels like 440C and Aus8. After testing the knife, I felt that I would prefer to have any of several other stainless steels on a whitewater knife (freshwater, not saltwater): 154, S30, VG10....

So, am I missing something? Was the heat-treat on mine not up to par? I can see H1 for saltwater applications, or those rare individuals that have a body chemistry that "eats" other steels]

Thom I couldn't agree with you more. I bet I had that same knife you had. I bet it was that "divers knife". I too had that knife for over a year. I also tested another knife with another super corrosion resistant steel called X15-TN. I was impressed with their corrosion resistance but I like yourself said " What's the big deal?" I briefly had my hands on a Salt I but then again it never made it to my "Gotta-have list". Now don't get me wrong because I know it is amazing steel in it's unique corrosion free properties but I will take VG-10 or ZDP any day of the week. H-1 from what I was told is a precipitation hardened steel. Actually as far as the corrosion part of it goes: Anytime I go snorkeling in salt water I just go to the shower on the beach and flush the knife with fresh water and I never have had a problem. You just have to be mindful and clean. Now I'm not against it either and I know it has it's place but I'm not going out of my way for it. I take that back to an extent because I probably will get a Tasman Salt because of my fanaticism over hawkbills. :spyder:

[RLR]

I had a Salt I used as a picnic knife - used it with some food and didn't worry about corrosion. I guess I did buy it because of the H1 factor; used it once and put it in the drawer! BUT, in my world, I don't need a soft steel that doesn't rust. At the end of the day, that's what H1 is. If I am near or in water - fishing, trekking, whatever - I just clean and dry whatever blade I have. I would rather have the toughness of VG10, 440C or S30V and watch for rust. This said, I did give my Salt to a deserving white water guy (Thom, you know him - small world!) as he will be in water all the time and require a knife as the situation dictates, not to cut mundane things an EDC would be used for.

So, is H1 all that? Yes, if used in marine and water rescue environments. Apart from that, I don't see its use. For EDC, why? Will it harden as you sharpen? Maybe on a molecular level or something, but will you "feel" the difference? I would doubt it.

Anyway, that's it from the Peanut Gallery.

[STR]

All I've ever needed to maintain the blade of my PE Salt 1 is a cardboard from the back of a legal pad. A couple strops and it is up and running again with great bite just like it came from the factory with. I find H1 to be a very easy steel to maintain and carefree to use.

It may be true that it doesn't hold the edge as long as an S30V blade or VG10 blade but when it is that easy to bring back to a razor edge who cares? H1 is my favorite steel for all around EDC uses. My upgraded Salt 1 is the default knife of all my carry knives. I carry others don't get me wrong. But their rides are just temporary and fleeting because I always fall back to the Salt1 eventually. It is just hard to deny it pocket time and the number one spot for me.

STR

[gull wing]

I use Salt1 when whittling or box cutting. This H1 just shaves wood, it remindes me of an old carbon steel knife I had in the 50's and 60's. I can easily get to an incredibly sharp state fast and it bites into the material.
No it's not S30V, but it has a special place in my book.

[Andre V]

I have been staying at the coast for the past 2 weeks, i have carried the salt1 and pacific salt during this time. In my opinion the salt series knives are great. I haven't found them to dull quickly and the lack of maintenace is great.

I have used my knives a lot, cleaning fish and other bits and pieces. If i remember correctly the Rockwell rating for the H1 57-58 which is inline with some steels. There was also a post a few weeks ago where Ed Scheemp related how the steel is composed at at molecular level and how it gets harder with use.

[chux]

I had heard that H1 was not very good at retaining an edge and used this as an excuse to buy another knife to test. It just so happened that it arrived and was put on sole EDC use at the start of a period in which I needed to do a lot (relative to my normal weeks anyway) of heavy cutting. I was very impressed with it, it needed much less effort to maintain an edge than I had expected and worked very nicely. The corrosion resistance was a nice feature but not one that I expect to need.

Overall I would be quite happy to purchase and EDC H1 blades in future.

[jaislandboy]

...

I was lucky enough to test one of the first production knives with H1 - not a Spyderco - for well over a year...

Hey Thom, I think we get spoiled with VG10/S30V/ZDP189 and H-1 from B*****made might not necessarily have the same heat treatment as the steel used for Spyderco....Just the other day I saw my buddy's Dallara Rescue (he kept it attached to the side of his driver's seat) and it had developed a few rust "pock" marks on the VG10 blade (easily removed with Flitz polish) ....I wonder how hard the H-1 edge can get with "wear-hardening" over time?.... :rolleyes: :cool:

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Friend,

...or those rare individuals that have a body chemistry that "eats" other steels...

That in and of itself is 99% of my attraction to H1. I DESTROY other steels unless they are wiped down daily with oil, and even that isn't always a guarantee. In fact, ATS-55 is particularly susceptible to my body chemistry. I have managed to rust VG-10 after a couple of days in the summer without a wipedown, and this only in my pocket, not against my skin.

I agree - 440C is a valid comparison for initial hardness. I, for one, consider it worth the tradeoff.

YMMV. :D

--------
Hannibal

[thom lambert]

So, if I get a Tasman Salt, and just use the heck out of it, it will eventually get up to R60? (TPFIC) :rolleyes: I am having a hard time with this concept. There must be some limit to the "wear-hardening" of H1, or it would be the miracle steel that we have always wanted: "The more you use it, the harder it gets."

I did use mine very hard - abused would be closer to the truth. I agree that it was very easy to strop - reminiscent again of 440C. That is what worries me. I see these blades as being used in an environment where constant resharpening is not really that practical - especially with serrations. I can get a VG10 or S30V blade back to a good working edge - shaving, but not hair-popping sharp - in a couple of minutes with a crock stick.

I guess I will just have to get one and try some more testing.


Thanks to all for weighing in. :D

[Irish Lager]

as far as work hardening goes i am pretty sure that mainly applies to the initial grinding. Have you used a SE H1 knife yet, if not that is somthing to check out. It has great edge retension far superior to PE. From what i read the extra grinding that is required to create the SE is what causes the H1 to work harden, and therefore gives it far better edge retension. I EDC'd my Pacific Salt SE for about a month and found that it held an edge extremely well. I even cut down some small sapplings with it one day. The only reason i stoped using it is because i got my Dodo and that took its place. It is still one of my primary field knives and i couldnt be happier with the performance it has given me thus far.
J

[TazKristi]

H1 is a precipitation-hardened alloy. And yes, it is also work-hardened. Meaning that anything that you do that causes heat through friction will harden the steel further; it’s also important to note that tests have shown that it does not become brittle. The work-hardened properties of H1 have been proven by analysis independently performed by Crucible Specialty Metals. It is this that explains why an H1 blade with a SpyderEdge has better edge retention than it's PlainEdge counterpart. In the end, the analysis from Crucible found the Rc at the spine was 58, however at the edge it had increased in both the PlainEdge (to 65 Rc) and the SpyderEdge (to 68 Rc).

The Salt Series knives are being made and promoted to a market where corrosion resistance is important.

So, is H1 possibly just another flavor-of-the-month? Possibly, but hype can only go so far.

Kristi

[Hannibal Lecter]

My Dear Kristi,

In the end, the analysis from Crucible found the Rc at the spine was 58, however at the edge it had increased in both the PlainEdge (to 65 Rc) and the SpyderEdge (to 68 Rc).

I was unaware that the Rc was so high. Wonderful!

So, is H1 possibly just another flavor-of-the-month? Possibly, but hype can only go so far.

I see H1 being around for a LONG time. Hype doesn't impress me; performance does, and H1 performs, at least in MY hands.

--------
Hannibal