the MBC forum was a bit slow this weekend. I'd like to get as many opinions as to what you'd like to see in an MBC knife. Length, size shape, steel, handle material, all the little things or just the 5 most important features you feel a MBC knife should have.
My top five would be:
1. g-10 handle
2. blade length of at least 4 1/2 inches
3. partially sharpened top edge
4. steel should be ats 34.
5. non-tanto point.
and hey if you're in the mood give an explanation for each point. Have a good weekend guys (and gals if yer about)
top 5 features you want in an MBC blade.
my top 5 would be,1:g10handle with titanium liners, 2:blade length between 3& a half to four inches, 3: clip point or spear point blade, 4: finger groove's or integral guard, 5: blade must close flush with handle so knife may be used as a yawara, (yes i know the gunting has this feature). i feel all folding knives should be able to be used effectively in the closed position so that you have more than one option in the use of force continuum. i would also like it to have a reversible pocket clip so it can be carried right or left handed.
1. Thick (2-2.5mm each) SS liner<b>s </b>
For a heftier feel and added weigth if you have to use the handle as a fistweigth or if you have to hit someone with it. SS because the titanium I believe is not as resistant to rubbing/friction.
2. G-10 handle (3.5 mm - like the Gunting)
With the thicker liners the handle would get big enough for me. The G-10 should be applied for better grip only.
3. Blade 4.5 inches
Should be capable of cutting through winter clothes in one cut.
4. Blade 1+ inch wide
5. Blade 1.5/8 inch thick
Both of these points because it will give a knife some weigth. I´ve noticed how small a knife becomes when you are put under som pressure.
/Colinz
For a heftier feel and added weigth if you have to use the handle as a fistweigth or if you have to hit someone with it. SS because the titanium I believe is not as resistant to rubbing/friction.
2. G-10 handle (3.5 mm - like the Gunting)
With the thicker liners the handle would get big enough for me. The G-10 should be applied for better grip only.
3. Blade 4.5 inches
Should be capable of cutting through winter clothes in one cut.
4. Blade 1+ inch wide
5. Blade 1.5/8 inch thick
Both of these points because it will give a knife some weigth. I´ve noticed how small a knife becomes when you are put under som pressure.
/Colinz
hey colinz, i chose titanium due to it being lighter and stronger than SS. i also chose the blade length due to the fact that most police officers are not knife educated. they usually measure a blades length by holding it against the palm of thier hand, thus, with a smaller police officer, even a small blade will look like it is over the legal length. and as far as i know knives are still not very "politically correct" at this time.
Ronin 203,
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>hey colinz, i chose titanium due to it being lighter and stronger than SS. <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
It can be bent out of shape and come back to the original form better than steel or Al. That´s why they use it in airplanes and such. But I believe that it doesn´t hold up as well as SS when steel is rubbed against it. Offcourse you could get around that problem using a bronze or teflon bushing but still the weigth would be lower. I would like a knife to be a bit heavy and "chunky".
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>i also chose the blade length due to the fact that most police officers are not knife educated. they usually measure a blades length by holding it against the palm of thier hand, thus, with a smaller police officer, even a small blade will look like it is over the legal length. <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
Can´t you sue a policeofficer that makes that misstake. We can´t do that in our country but are you not able to do that in yours if he makes a false arrest. Correct me if I´m wrong. There are also different laws in different parts of USA (and the world) that´s why a 4+ incher would be nice.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>and as far as i know knives are still not very "politically correct" at this time. <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
Yes, it seems that way <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
/Colinz
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>hey colinz, i chose titanium due to it being lighter and stronger than SS. <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
It can be bent out of shape and come back to the original form better than steel or Al. That´s why they use it in airplanes and such. But I believe that it doesn´t hold up as well as SS when steel is rubbed against it. Offcourse you could get around that problem using a bronze or teflon bushing but still the weigth would be lower. I would like a knife to be a bit heavy and "chunky".
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>i also chose the blade length due to the fact that most police officers are not knife educated. they usually measure a blades length by holding it against the palm of thier hand, thus, with a smaller police officer, even a small blade will look like it is over the legal length. <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
Can´t you sue a policeofficer that makes that misstake. We can´t do that in our country but are you not able to do that in yours if he makes a false arrest. Correct me if I´m wrong. There are also different laws in different parts of USA (and the world) that´s why a 4+ incher would be nice.
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size=1 face=arial>quote:<hr height=1 noshade>and as far as i know knives are still not very "politically correct" at this time. <hr height=1 noshade></BLOCKQUOTE></font><font face='Verdana, Arial, Helvetica' size=2>
Yes, it seems that way <img src="sad.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
/Colinz
Hi Sal,
I´m thinking of a folder. It would be heavy and primarily meant for carry in a kydex holster. It would have all of the spyder features like the hole and clip.
The weight would be hard to decide just sitting here and typing. There would be a need to do some real world testing under stressful situations. I remember when during my military service one group of people would defend a position and another group of people was trying to ambush them. Sitting there in the night, dark, cold, and scared made your weapons always feel smaller. It might sound a bit weird but this is something other people have been explaining to me also.
If you get a knife that is a bit bigger you might get a psychological advantage.
It might have something to do with your fine motor skills disappearing during stress. I just don´t know. If it does then this would be another argument for a bigger knife.
By using the compression lock and the thick liners this might be something that could be done without risking a lock failure.
A serious knife for outdoorpeople (maybe the military too) who need a allround blade in a compact package. It takes less space than a conventional fixed blade but can do most of the tasks needed.
Sure you could always go with a fixed blade but the folder will always take less space.
Just an idea,
Colinz
I´m thinking of a folder. It would be heavy and primarily meant for carry in a kydex holster. It would have all of the spyder features like the hole and clip.
The weight would be hard to decide just sitting here and typing. There would be a need to do some real world testing under stressful situations. I remember when during my military service one group of people would defend a position and another group of people was trying to ambush them. Sitting there in the night, dark, cold, and scared made your weapons always feel smaller. It might sound a bit weird but this is something other people have been explaining to me also.
If you get a knife that is a bit bigger you might get a psychological advantage.
It might have something to do with your fine motor skills disappearing during stress. I just don´t know. If it does then this would be another argument for a bigger knife.
By using the compression lock and the thick liners this might be something that could be done without risking a lock failure.
A serious knife for outdoorpeople (maybe the military too) who need a allround blade in a compact package. It takes less space than a conventional fixed blade but can do most of the tasks needed.
Sure you could always go with a fixed blade but the folder will always take less space.
Just an idea,
Colinz
hi colinz, yes you could sue the police officer, but it would be dragged out in court for a very long time, and could get a little expensive. however, since i am a private security officer, and meet and talk with several cops, a lot of it depends on why they stopped you in the first place, and your attitude with them. its all in how you carry yourself, and the way you act in public. if you go out carrying a folder, and act like a jerk and give the cops reason to stop you, then you are just asking to get in trouble. it is very rare that a cop will arrest you for carrying a folder,(unless of course you just used it in a crime), or that he will even take it from you,(again this also depends on your attitude with the officer). but it can happen. i always carry a folding knife with me, unless of course entering a court house or federal building, and i have never had a problem. carrying a knife requires just as much responsibility as carrying a firearm. if you are negligent with it you probably should'nt be carrying it.
Chambers..
Chambers:THANK you for attempting to make sure the MBC wasn't blank..it came up that way to several people when they signed on..
And they al tried to do as you and put something here...
THANK YOU!!!!!
now on to the MBC wants..
your blade length of 4.5 " would eliminate it from most places..4" is about maxiumum...3 or less is a common pocket knife accepted in MANY places around the world and in the USA..
4 or more isn't..
so so much for the longer blade stuff.
Plus why do you need it? You don't really think a 4 inch is going to cut beter than a three inch do you?
Are you that good that an inch makes a difference if it was allowed?
no offense ment..just asking..
sharpen the top edge? nope, can't do! now its definately illegal in almost every state and other parts of the world cause its a dagger.or double edged...
if ANY portion is sharpened is the same as the whole secondary edge sharpened..its like being pregnant..you either are or aren't no partial preggers allowed or possible!
why should the steel be ATS34??? you don't like the others? Theres lots of good stel out there..
Non tanto? why? theres some great Tantos out there..check out the Spyderco LUM tanto appleseed ..great blade!..
no lock preference?
geeeee that' would be one of my first considerations!
have a great day!!!!
Chambers:THANK you for attempting to make sure the MBC wasn't blank..it came up that way to several people when they signed on..
And they al tried to do as you and put something here...
THANK YOU!!!!!
now on to the MBC wants..
your blade length of 4.5 " would eliminate it from most places..4" is about maxiumum...3 or less is a common pocket knife accepted in MANY places around the world and in the USA..
4 or more isn't..
so so much for the longer blade stuff.
Plus why do you need it? You don't really think a 4 inch is going to cut beter than a three inch do you?
Are you that good that an inch makes a difference if it was allowed?
no offense ment..just asking..
sharpen the top edge? nope, can't do! now its definately illegal in almost every state and other parts of the world cause its a dagger.or double edged...
if ANY portion is sharpened is the same as the whole secondary edge sharpened..its like being pregnant..you either are or aren't no partial preggers allowed or possible!
why should the steel be ATS34??? you don't like the others? Theres lots of good stel out there..
Non tanto? why? theres some great Tantos out there..check out the Spyderco LUM tanto appleseed ..great blade!..
no lock preference?
geeeee that' would be one of my first considerations!
have a great day!!!!
My desires would all bias toward superior handling under stress.
1. Secure grip, both in scale material and design.
2.Balance for secure grip shifts.
3.Half-guard for prevention of forward hand slip during strikes.
4. Intergrated with sheath design for quick, secure presentation while in combat grip.
5. Interchangeable scales for grip width adjustments.
My thinking is that you have to get to the MBC device quickly, obtain a secure action- ready grip, present, and strike while under physical effects of fear and combative stress.
Any design features that support this principle are paramount for my use.
-Seth
Edited by - Seth on 6/25/2001 5:23:09 PM
1. Secure grip, both in scale material and design.
2.Balance for secure grip shifts.
3.Half-guard for prevention of forward hand slip during strikes.
4. Intergrated with sheath design for quick, secure presentation while in combat grip.
5. Interchangeable scales for grip width adjustments.
My thinking is that you have to get to the MBC device quickly, obtain a secure action- ready grip, present, and strike while under physical effects of fear and combative stress.
Any design features that support this principle are paramount for my use.
-Seth
Edited by - Seth on 6/25/2001 5:23:09 PM
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Scorpius711
- Member
- Posts: 54
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: South Bend, Indiana USA
I agree with Seth, options that would enhance grip and deployment especially with gloves on.
1.Large thumbhole like the Military
2. A big course textured G-10 handle, in a shape that has a top and bottom guard, with traction rigdes at index finger, and at the butt on the bottom side. Should be as thick as the Gunting. Or a titanium handle with Kraton inserts would also work for me.
3.Tip down carry, but not deep pocket carry (makes it hard to pull out in a hurry) the Wegner feel just right in this area.
4. Police or Massad Ayoob style blade, at 4 inches, ATS 55 steel is fine, with full serrations.
5. Compression lock<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
1.Large thumbhole like the Military
2. A big course textured G-10 handle, in a shape that has a top and bottom guard, with traction rigdes at index finger, and at the butt on the bottom side. Should be as thick as the Gunting. Or a titanium handle with Kraton inserts would also work for me.
3.Tip down carry, but not deep pocket carry (makes it hard to pull out in a hurry) the Wegner feel just right in this area.
4. Police or Massad Ayoob style blade, at 4 inches, ATS 55 steel is fine, with full serrations.
5. Compression lock<img src="smile.gif" width=15 height=15 align=middle>
i haven't handled a compression lock yet, but everything i have read about it is good. i'll stick with the 3.5 to 4 inch blade length. and i still prefer the clip point or spear point. i know there are a lot of good tanto point's out there, i even own a couple. i just dont see a lot of utility use in it, particularly for skinning. i want a mbc knife for edc. i want it for defense and utility. thats why i love my chinook, and i plan to get a gunting to carry for backup. i believe that carrying these two knives i can handle just about anything.
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Michael Janich
- Member
- Posts: 2997
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Longmont, CO USA
- Contact:
Dear Chambers:
Great question. I apologize for my lack of input during the past few days. I was up in Canada shooting a video on making katanas with ABS Master Smith Wally Hayes - too much fun and not enough time to keep up with postings.
For a pure fighter, your specifications make a lot of sense. However, for something that is practical and legally defensible for street carry, shorter blades and single edges unfortunately must lead the way.
Ronin203's comments concerning smooth lines and yawara-style attributes echo my own feelings. In fact, give me a couple of days and I may have some good news to report on this.
For my money, the top 5 qualities of an MBC knife are:
1) Extremely strong lock of a design that is not prone to catastrophic failure.
2) A solid, well-shaped handle that provides excellent traction and above-average function as a blunt impact weapon.
3) A lock release that is not vulnerable to accidental closure.
4) A 3 to 3-1/2-inch blade with excellent edge geometry and a strong, sharp point.
5) A reversible clip that allows both left and right-side tip-up carry. Clip placement should allow discreet carry without sacrificing quick access and the ability to achieve a positive draw (I'm not as worried about 3/4-inch of the handle showing above the pocket as I am having to stick my hand in up to the wrist to draw my knife.).
You may notice that I'm not "material specific" in my choices. That's because, like MBC tactics, MBC blades represent outcome-based education at its best. After all, in a real situation it doesn't matter if you carry a knife like mine or if you fight like me - you just need to carry a good knife and fight well.
Excellent question - excellent thread. Please keep more like this coming.
Stay safe,
mike j
Great question. I apologize for my lack of input during the past few days. I was up in Canada shooting a video on making katanas with ABS Master Smith Wally Hayes - too much fun and not enough time to keep up with postings.
For a pure fighter, your specifications make a lot of sense. However, for something that is practical and legally defensible for street carry, shorter blades and single edges unfortunately must lead the way.
Ronin203's comments concerning smooth lines and yawara-style attributes echo my own feelings. In fact, give me a couple of days and I may have some good news to report on this.
For my money, the top 5 qualities of an MBC knife are:
1) Extremely strong lock of a design that is not prone to catastrophic failure.
2) A solid, well-shaped handle that provides excellent traction and above-average function as a blunt impact weapon.
3) A lock release that is not vulnerable to accidental closure.
4) A 3 to 3-1/2-inch blade with excellent edge geometry and a strong, sharp point.
5) A reversible clip that allows both left and right-side tip-up carry. Clip placement should allow discreet carry without sacrificing quick access and the ability to achieve a positive draw (I'm not as worried about 3/4-inch of the handle showing above the pocket as I am having to stick my hand in up to the wrist to draw my knife.).
You may notice that I'm not "material specific" in my choices. That's because, like MBC tactics, MBC blades represent outcome-based education at its best. After all, in a real situation it doesn't matter if you carry a knife like mine or if you fight like me - you just need to carry a good knife and fight well.
Excellent question - excellent thread. Please keep more like this coming.
Stay safe,
mike j
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vampyrewolf
- Member
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- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
- Location: Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, Canada
1> 3-3.5" blade
2> well molded g-10 handle, finger ridges/guard
3> 440V or vg-10
4> 4-5mm blade width
5> .75-1.25" belly
acceptable size, good grip, userfriendly steel(easy to keep **** sharp), easy to slide in b/w gaps...
We all start with 10 fingers. Those with Spydies have 9 to spare, Still need a thumb. Good thing I still have 8 to spare...
2> well molded g-10 handle, finger ridges/guard
3> 440V or vg-10
4> 4-5mm blade width
5> .75-1.25" belly
acceptable size, good grip, userfriendly steel(easy to keep **** sharp), easy to slide in b/w gaps...
We all start with 10 fingers. Those with Spydies have 9 to spare, Still need a thumb. Good thing I still have 8 to spare...
1) Easily accesible (carry position)
2) Dependable Lock
3) Ambidexterious
4) Ergonomic
5) Useful Blade design
I feel that a MBC bladecraft piece should have thoose qualities first then the features could be choosen sort of the form follows function line of thinking. One of the most important features (for me at least) would be a ambidexterious pocket clip and one that could be converted from tip up to tip dowm.
2) Dependable Lock
3) Ambidexterious
4) Ergonomic
5) Useful Blade design
I feel that a MBC bladecraft piece should have thoose qualities first then the features could be choosen sort of the form follows function line of thinking. One of the most important features (for me at least) would be a ambidexterious pocket clip and one that could be converted from tip up to tip dowm.
My apologies to those that thought I was a bit flippant or coarse in my response..
I was being tongue in cheek & a touch sarcastic maybe..but I thought it gave me a chance to express what I see Mike echoed..
That what one really wants and what we can reaklly have are two different issues...
that the percieved idea of a tactical folder or MBC gets autoimatically tempered in my mind by what I can really get..
I think its a cool thread..
I believe I said thank you..
BUt OK..Thank you for the great thread!
I was being tongue in cheek & a touch sarcastic maybe..but I thought it gave me a chance to express what I see Mike echoed..
That what one really wants and what we can reaklly have are two different issues...
that the percieved idea of a tactical folder or MBC gets autoimatically tempered in my mind by what I can really get..
I think its a cool thread..
I believe I said thank you..
BUt OK..Thank you for the great thread!
Other than the use of the new Compression Lock, pretty much everything I would like in a MBC folder would be met by Mega Folder versions, at least 5" blade, of the Military and Police
Bram, no double edges and being a little bit pregnant? I'm setting here looking at my Spyderco catalog and the description of the
Worker CO1 says: "When the knife is opened only slightly, the sharpened false edge can be used to cut items such as string or tape." Looks like a double edged Spyderco to me.
All you need is love, a sharp blade and a full clip
Edited by - TonieN on 6/29/2001 1:45:58 PM
Bram, no double edges and being a little bit pregnant? I'm setting here looking at my Spyderco catalog and the description of the
Worker CO1 says: "When the knife is opened only slightly, the sharpened false edge can be used to cut items such as string or tape." Looks like a double edged Spyderco to me.
All you need is love, a sharp blade and a full clip
Edited by - TonieN on 6/29/2001 1:45:58 PM