Hi gang,
(I'm a first time poster, so go easy on me if I mess up or do something wrong.)
First, some background information.....
I have recently made the decision to carry a (knife) back-up to my concealed carry handgun and I am considering buying the Endura. If I buy one, it will live in my weak side front pocket (left hand) as my gun (Kel-Tec P-32) goes in my strong side front pocket.
I work as a professional in office environments, so anything I carry MUST be very discrete. My dress is usually Dockers type of slacks and a tucked in shirt with tie. I live in Florida, so with the hot weather we have down here, no "covering" garmet would be possible.
I have a couple of questions for you "old hands".....
1. Is the Endura a good choice? I looked at the Delica, but it seems a bit too small to me for emergengy "last chance" type of use.
2. What about the lighweight Police 07G model with the G-10 handles? This looked promising until I saw that it must be carried "point down" only. (Why do designers do that? I've tried to use "point down" pocket knives of my friends and it
seems slow and clumsy to have to reposition the knife around in your hand before you can open it. Not good in an emergency.....)
3. What are the pluses and minuses of the fully serrated vs. 50/50 blade style? It seems like that the fully serrated would be best for emergency defensive type of back-up. (I also carry a very small pocket knife for opening letters, cleaning my fingernails, etc., so I've got that type of use covered.)
3. One thing that attracts me to the Endura/Delica is that they seem to ride pretty low in the pocket. But when the knife is in your pocket, does the all black attachment clip and the black tip of the handle that "shows" attract much attention? I've found that people don't really look that closely in general, but I would appreciate your feedback.
Sorry for the long post but thanks in advance for your help. I really appreciate it.
Tom Puderbaugh
tompuderba@aol.com
Question about the Endura......
-
Tom Puderbaugh
- Member
- Posts: 16
- Joined: Fri Sep 24, 2004 10:33 am
Welcome to the sharp side Tom.
The Endura.(My first Spyderco by the way).A great big knife in a small package.1.For emergency I give it an A+.It is fast,lightweight and able to take an impact to the cutting edge without flinching.Provided you have conditioned yourself to the shock that occurs with using a blade in that situation.2.It's slim profile and clip position doesn't provide bulk or weight,because of the clip,but I wouldn't wear a lighter colored trouser with it being black.3.Reversable clip makes left or right hand "draw and fire"as easy as it gets.4.The hole,as simple as putting on your socks,a few flicks and you'll question why any other opening option ever made it on a knife.5.Police G-10,another good choice,but wow what a big knife for small jobs.6.Spyderedge(fully serrated) is and in my opinion the best edge holding design.You don't have to worry about if it's sharp enough,it will be.7.50/50 is a better utility base,but the new 2001 model Endura has an extended plain tip on it s fully serrated model for your everyday little items.You won't be needing that little pocket knife anymore,it will just wear holes in your pockets.8.The delica provides all the features of the Endura just a bit smaller.If you carry a delica for close defense a little more training will be required to get your effective range.A gunting may be in your future.Check it out,it's the most conceptual innovation for non-lethal force method you may possibly ever see.
I hope this helps on your decision.I carry a spyderco everyday.I just orderd my second Endura tuesday(fully serrated).Due to my first one being 50/50,for utility,this one's going in the defense/emergency.Also check out the Endura trainer,it's an inexpensive way to practice draw technique and train without seprating yourself.Believe me,it's a must for those who like to keep and use fingers.There is no messing up here,just a step to help you on your way to what ever it is you're doing.You just have to thank Sal.He started it all
The Endura.(My first Spyderco by the way).A great big knife in a small package.1.For emergency I give it an A+.It is fast,lightweight and able to take an impact to the cutting edge without flinching.Provided you have conditioned yourself to the shock that occurs with using a blade in that situation.2.It's slim profile and clip position doesn't provide bulk or weight,because of the clip,but I wouldn't wear a lighter colored trouser with it being black.3.Reversable clip makes left or right hand "draw and fire"as easy as it gets.4.The hole,as simple as putting on your socks,a few flicks and you'll question why any other opening option ever made it on a knife.5.Police G-10,another good choice,but wow what a big knife for small jobs.6.Spyderedge(fully serrated) is and in my opinion the best edge holding design.You don't have to worry about if it's sharp enough,it will be.7.50/50 is a better utility base,but the new 2001 model Endura has an extended plain tip on it s fully serrated model for your everyday little items.You won't be needing that little pocket knife anymore,it will just wear holes in your pockets.8.The delica provides all the features of the Endura just a bit smaller.If you carry a delica for close defense a little more training will be required to get your effective range.A gunting may be in your future.Check it out,it's the most conceptual innovation for non-lethal force method you may possibly ever see.
I hope this helps on your decision.I carry a spyderco everyday.I just orderd my second Endura tuesday(fully serrated).Due to my first one being 50/50,for utility,this one's going in the defense/emergency.Also check out the Endura trainer,it's an inexpensive way to practice draw technique and train without seprating yourself.Believe me,it's a must for those who like to keep and use fingers.There is no messing up here,just a step to help you on your way to what ever it is you're doing.You just have to thank Sal.He started it all
My opinion is that the Endura is a perfect defensive knife. You might try to pick up a stainless steel one to fit in with your attire. I personally dont like SS too heavy/too slippery.
The Endura is one of the Spydercos where a trainer (unsharpened/ blunted tip is available) and is used in the Martial Blade Craft classes sponsored by Spyderco.
So it is a recognized "defensive" tool. The Delica is ALSO an excellent defensive blade and has the ADVANTAGE of being more accepted because of it's smaller size.
To answer your second question, tip down carry is slightly safer. I've had other brand knives that were tip up carry open in my pocket enough to cut me. And tip down doesn't neccessarily slow you down enough to discount a particular knife, IF that knife has other advantages. have you tried the "pinch" opening procedure that works so well on Spyderco products? Instead of just using a thumb to open, you place both the thumb AND index finger on either side of the Spyderco hole and flip the knife so that momentum/gravity assist in opening it.
The Police model gets carried by a lot of professionals who count on a knife to protect their lives as well as others.
Question 3. The serrations either 50/50 or full blade work great for cutting rope, seat belts, etc. I prefer at least 50/50. Some users might say the serrations are hard to sharpen - use a Spyderco 204 SharpMaker.
#4. The Endura and Delica ride low in the pocket as you observed. What seems to draw peoples attention is if you "telegraph" your knife. Since you're used to carrying a concealed handgun you should be aware if you're telegraphing. i.e. "checking" that it's there when getting up, etc. Fiddling with the pocket.
Hope this helps!
John Row
The Endura is one of the Spydercos where a trainer (unsharpened/ blunted tip is available) and is used in the Martial Blade Craft classes sponsored by Spyderco.
So it is a recognized "defensive" tool. The Delica is ALSO an excellent defensive blade and has the ADVANTAGE of being more accepted because of it's smaller size.
To answer your second question, tip down carry is slightly safer. I've had other brand knives that were tip up carry open in my pocket enough to cut me. And tip down doesn't neccessarily slow you down enough to discount a particular knife, IF that knife has other advantages. have you tried the "pinch" opening procedure that works so well on Spyderco products? Instead of just using a thumb to open, you place both the thumb AND index finger on either side of the Spyderco hole and flip the knife so that momentum/gravity assist in opening it.
The Police model gets carried by a lot of professionals who count on a knife to protect their lives as well as others.
Question 3. The serrations either 50/50 or full blade work great for cutting rope, seat belts, etc. I prefer at least 50/50. Some users might say the serrations are hard to sharpen - use a Spyderco 204 SharpMaker.
#4. The Endura and Delica ride low in the pocket as you observed. What seems to draw peoples attention is if you "telegraph" your knife. Since you're used to carrying a concealed handgun you should be aware if you're telegraphing. i.e. "checking" that it's there when getting up, etc. Fiddling with the pocket.
Hope this helps!
John Row
Tom,
There are probably better knives in the Spyderco line up for defense than the Endura but it would serve you well. There is a trainer currently available for the Endura if that is something you that you are interested in. For your future reference you will probably get more and better informed opinions (Michael Janich) on self defense questions over on the Spyderco Martial Blade Craft(MBC) forum. This question has been addressed over there so I am pasting two of the responses.
"As for selecting a defensive carry knife, the Delica and Endura are excellent choices both because of the quality of the knives and because you can get matching trainers. My advice is to visit a knife store that sells both and give them each a thorough "test drive" (gripping, opening, carry in the pocket, drawing, etc.). Then take a trip to your public library and review the "revised statutes" (state laws) for your state regarding edged weapons. If you live in or travel frequently to a large municipality, visit their library and do the same for applicable municipal laws. Once you have a solid understanding of the restrictions on blade length and any other prohibited characteristics, make your final decision accordingly.
My personal preference (and one of my daily carry knives) is a plain-edged Delica. I can take it everywhere and it doesn't raise any eyebrows - even at airport security. At the same time, when properly maintained it will cut as well as any nigh-priced tactical folder in my collection.
In the interest of full disclosure, please note that the locks on the Delica and Endura not "MBC rated" (capable of withstanding 200 pounds of pressure per inch of blade length). From a practical and empirical standpoint, this is not a great concern to me. My personal lock tests have shown that the Delica and Endura easily compare with the best "tactical" folders on the market and are in fact much better than most. My only caution is that, if you engage in any ballistic cutting exercises with your knife, frequently test the lock to ensure that it hasn't been compromised. To do this, take a pinch grip on the handle (no fingers in the way of the handle slot) and rap the back of the blade firmly on the edge of a workbench. If the lock holds tight, continue to carry the knife. If it closes, retire it immediately.
I have "worn out" the locks of quite a few knives (of various brands) through ballistic cutting practice on training dummies and targets. This doesn't mean that the knives were bad - I just stressed them beyond their normal standards of performance. The good thing was that I learned that the locks were compromised during training, not in the middle of a fight."
- Michael Janich, Head Instructor, Spyderco MBC Program
"The Endura and Delica have been used as "MBC" equipment for many years. In fact, Eric Remmin began the "Clipit defense class" using Delicas about 10 years ago.
The locks are not MBC rated by Spyderco standards. They are however "Heavy Duty" rated.
Spyderco standards for an MBC rated lock are quite extreme and very few knives will actually fall into that category. That doesn't mean they weren't designed for MBC.
Spyderco knives listed as MBC designs do not all have an MBC rated lock. They are at least Heavy duty. (100 inch/lbs per inch of blade).
However, there are many knives that were designed for MBC and are sold as such by many companies that would not pass Spyderco's light and medium duty ratings.
This is not to knock any other companies, just to inform you that Spyderco does take our responsibilities seriously. Knife safety is serious"
- Sal Glesser
Edited by - glenn on 6/1/2001 11:22:57 AM
There are probably better knives in the Spyderco line up for defense than the Endura but it would serve you well. There is a trainer currently available for the Endura if that is something you that you are interested in. For your future reference you will probably get more and better informed opinions (Michael Janich) on self defense questions over on the Spyderco Martial Blade Craft(MBC) forum. This question has been addressed over there so I am pasting two of the responses.
"As for selecting a defensive carry knife, the Delica and Endura are excellent choices both because of the quality of the knives and because you can get matching trainers. My advice is to visit a knife store that sells both and give them each a thorough "test drive" (gripping, opening, carry in the pocket, drawing, etc.). Then take a trip to your public library and review the "revised statutes" (state laws) for your state regarding edged weapons. If you live in or travel frequently to a large municipality, visit their library and do the same for applicable municipal laws. Once you have a solid understanding of the restrictions on blade length and any other prohibited characteristics, make your final decision accordingly.
My personal preference (and one of my daily carry knives) is a plain-edged Delica. I can take it everywhere and it doesn't raise any eyebrows - even at airport security. At the same time, when properly maintained it will cut as well as any nigh-priced tactical folder in my collection.
In the interest of full disclosure, please note that the locks on the Delica and Endura not "MBC rated" (capable of withstanding 200 pounds of pressure per inch of blade length). From a practical and empirical standpoint, this is not a great concern to me. My personal lock tests have shown that the Delica and Endura easily compare with the best "tactical" folders on the market and are in fact much better than most. My only caution is that, if you engage in any ballistic cutting exercises with your knife, frequently test the lock to ensure that it hasn't been compromised. To do this, take a pinch grip on the handle (no fingers in the way of the handle slot) and rap the back of the blade firmly on the edge of a workbench. If the lock holds tight, continue to carry the knife. If it closes, retire it immediately.
I have "worn out" the locks of quite a few knives (of various brands) through ballistic cutting practice on training dummies and targets. This doesn't mean that the knives were bad - I just stressed them beyond their normal standards of performance. The good thing was that I learned that the locks were compromised during training, not in the middle of a fight."
- Michael Janich, Head Instructor, Spyderco MBC Program
"The Endura and Delica have been used as "MBC" equipment for many years. In fact, Eric Remmin began the "Clipit defense class" using Delicas about 10 years ago.
The locks are not MBC rated by Spyderco standards. They are however "Heavy Duty" rated.
Spyderco standards for an MBC rated lock are quite extreme and very few knives will actually fall into that category. That doesn't mean they weren't designed for MBC.
Spyderco knives listed as MBC designs do not all have an MBC rated lock. They are at least Heavy duty. (100 inch/lbs per inch of blade).
However, there are many knives that were designed for MBC and are sold as such by many companies that would not pass Spyderco's light and medium duty ratings.
This is not to knock any other companies, just to inform you that Spyderco does take our responsibilities seriously. Knife safety is serious"
- Sal Glesser
Edited by - glenn on 6/1/2001 11:22:57 AM
Tom -- Fist, welcome! Always great to see another "recruit."
Tho I understand he may switch to the Gunting, the blade trainer at the Sig Sauer academy has always used the Endura and Delica for his training knives. If so many trainers use the knives, I believe you're on real solid ground with the Endura. I certainly wouldn't recommend you go with anything shorter than a 3" blade. Of course, I'd probably carry a SIFU if it was legal in my state. I like 'em big.
Good luck!
Stare
Tho I understand he may switch to the Gunting, the blade trainer at the Sig Sauer academy has always used the Endura and Delica for his training knives. If so many trainers use the knives, I believe you're on real solid ground with the Endura. I certainly wouldn't recommend you go with anything shorter than a 3" blade. Of course, I'd probably carry a SIFU if it was legal in my state. I like 'em big.
Good luck!
Stare