factory edge angle of Police-blades PE/SE?

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denn
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factory edge angle of Police-blades PE/SE?

Postby denn » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:47 am

i'd like to know at which angle (per side) the edge of the Police plain edge is sharpened from the factory, any1 knows? i'm going to buy me a new one soon in plain edge and i'd like to not mess up the factory grind this time for a change....

by the way, i have the same question for the serrated model, how much degrees?

i'm going to put extra effort in the care of my police-models, so i like to get it right. pardon me if this has been asked a million times before.

ok, so:

- factory angle of plain edge? (per side)
- fctory angle of serrated edge? (per side. duh,..only 1 side :) )

tia guys,
denn

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HoB
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Postby HoB » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:14 pm

I believe all PE Spydies are hand sharpened to around 15 degrees (per side). Since they are hand sharpened, it might vary within a couple of degrees.

The SE is different, it is almost a form of chisel grind. On one side the primary bevel is caried directly to the edge (I would imagine that is no more that 6-8 degrees). The other side has an edge grind, probably also at about 15 degrees, but I have never measured it.

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denn
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Postby denn » Mon Mar 07, 2005 3:54 pm

thanks Hob. but err, 15 degrees :eek: ? you sure? that seems kind of low...

although it would explain why my police with its current 20 degree per side doesn't look like a factory edge, the edge looks too 'small'/'thin' right now.........

15 degrees ehh? hmm.....i hope its correct. i hope someone else can confirm this so i'm actually 100% sure when i start to re-bevel it...... (no offense hob, but i want to be totally sure). 15 degrees per side just sounds so low, i mean, that's like what you put on an Opinel carbon blade.......

i hope it's correct.
denn

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HoB
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Postby HoB » Mon Mar 07, 2005 8:54 pm

None taken. As long as you don't hear it directly from Spyderco....

02-08-2005, 08:24 PM

sal
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...Regarding the sharpening, we use a fairly coarse belt and we do it by hand. Angle is about 30 degrees.

We have two guys in Golden that are really good and about a dozen in Seki that are also good. It is a skill that takes a while. We also have a Goniometer and a CATRA for constant testing...

sal

Since 30 deg per side doesn't make sense (that would be the angle you might sharpen an axe at not to mention the fact that the Sharpmaker offers settings for 30 and 40 deg included) I conclude that the 30 deg refer to the included angle, which would make it 15 deg. per side.

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Postby Mariner » Mon Mar 07, 2005 9:58 pm

Come to think of it HoB, I think that Sal mentions something about this on the Sharpmaker VHS tape, doesn't he :confused: .

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Postby clipiteer » Tue Mar 08, 2005 9:25 am

Mariner wrote:Come to think of it HoB, I think that Sal mentions something about this on the Sharpmaker VHS tape, doesn't he :confused: .
Yes, he says they come from the factory at about 30 degrees. It's right after he recommends that you sharpen most knives at the 40 degree angle because most steels won't hold an edge at the 30 degree angle (then, of course, the guy asks Sal what angle Spyderco blades are sharpened to from the factory).

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Postby HoB » Tue Mar 08, 2005 11:17 am

It is also much easier to sharpen at 40 deg if the secondary bevel (as defined by Jeff Clark) or edge bevel is at 30 deg. Takes very little effort since you need too remove minimal amount of material. Also it ensures that you are working directly at the edge while being very insensitive to small misalignment of the blade. If the edge bevel is at 30 degrees and you are sharpening at 30 deg the slightest misalignment of the blade will prevent you from working on the edge.

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Postby denn » Tue Mar 08, 2005 12:25 pm

hmm, i'm a little confused right now, so i've send an email to spyderco tech-support and PM'ed Sal. hope to hear soon, nothing so far, will see.

one thing you mention doesn't make sense to me though, i mean, i find it odd that spyderco would deliver their knives with a 30 degree angle (15 per side) and then advices the customers to resharpen it at a 40 degree angle (20 per side) because the steel probably won't be able to 'handle' that 30 degree angle. that sounds rather contradictive. :confused:

in addition, i'm now also starting to wonder at what angle my military is sharpened.......(could probably be an acuter angle than on the police, due to the tough cpms30v...?)

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Postby HoB » Tue Mar 08, 2005 8:50 pm

Again, I am just your ordinary Joe interested in sharpening, no authority or expert in the field, but this is what I have gathered by reading and by my own experience.

All of Spyderco's steels are premium grade and every single one can support an included angle of 30 deg. From my own experience and what I have read about what other people are doing to their knives, the top grade steels like VG10 and S30V can support even much smaller angles. But if I remember correctly there is also at least one Dragonfly in ATS-55 out there that is reprofiled to something like 15 deg INCLUDED angle...that would be Vampyrewolf's. But I have to correct myself a bit here. The steel is not necessarily the most important factor in the angle a steel can support. The hardness of the steel is a major factor and then again of course the use. A straight razor even though being made from a fairly soft steel will support a tiny included angle (< 10 deg, yes I mean included angle) in the application it was made for (shaving).

The main reason why Spyderco is sharpening at 15 (each side) deg and recommending resharpen at 20 is to save the ELU a lot of work. If they would sharpen at 20 and you would maintain your edge at 20 you would have to remove a lot more material because you are removing material from the entire edge bevel, while at an edge bevel of 15 degrees you resharpen at a microbevel which is only fractions of a millimeter wide and so 20 light strokes each side on the sharpmaker get the edge amazingly sharp. An added benefit is that for tougher cutting jobs, the 20 deg microbevel is a little more sturdy and resilient and will last longer, while it will take away very, very little of the cutting ability since that is mainly a function of the thickness of the blade behind the edge, which is still mostly a 15 deg. bevel. However, it is true that after many sharpenings at 20 degrees, the initial microbevel will become fairly wide and you have to remove more and more material with each sharpening and sharpening takes longer and longer. So Spyderco recommends to back bevel once in a while, which means that you are removing the shoulder between the 15 deg factory bevel and the 20 deg microbevel and restore the edge to a true 15 deg bevel again.

Having said all that, many, many knife afficinados that don't mind sharpening (like myself) don't want to sacrifice even the small loss in cutting ability associated with a larger included bevel and maintain their edges always at 15 deg per side, even if it takes a bit longer. Personally I sharpen always at 15 degrees and give it just a few strokes at the highest grit at a slightly elevated angle, about 17 deg. But I have read also about people how rebevel to 12 degrees and finish off with a few strokes at 15 deg per side.

Hope that clarifies things a bit. If you do a search for Jeff Clark and Joe Talmadge on bladeforums, you are bound to stumble across many very got thread on sharpening. The sharpmaker video is also excellent.

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denn
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right from the source

Postby denn » Thu Mar 10, 2005 8:27 am

just got an email back from the guys at the factory and Amanda at tech.support. below is the email with the correct information:

"Hello Dennis,

To answer your question...The angle of the serrations on the Police is 18-19 degrees.
The angle of the plain edge Police is 18 degrees (36 inclusive) on each side.
The angle of the plain edge Military is 15 degrees (30 inclusive) on each side.

I hope this info will help you.

Thank you,
Spyderco Manufacturing
"Those who know carry Spyderco" "

denn

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HoB
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Postby HoB » Thu Mar 10, 2005 10:08 am

Excellent info! Thanks for sharing!

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Postby Piet.S » Thu Mar 10, 2005 2:34 pm

And thank you to HoB, I found it very interesting.


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