i can't stand liner locks, it is just me?

[i.v]

i can read a lot of great things about a knife, all the best reviews in the world, it may look great to me but the second i find out it's a liner lock i turn around & never look back...
the only thing close to a liner lock i have is the ss cricket & only because the integral lock is ok by me (& the cricket is wonderful :D )
but i really can't bring myself to trust a liner lock, no matter who makes it.. the whole design of it seems wrong, it's a bad idea to begin with, why did they invent it? & why did it spread like fire? no lock can be less reliable..
i've owned\handled\used about 6-7 linerlocks (owned 3 if you insisnt, the rest belonged to friends :p ).. all but one failed on me (& i was gentle... i'm always gentle on my knives) & some of those were good brand names.. i gave them all away but the one that didn't fail, but i don't trust it either & i'll give it away too soon.
i know a good liner lock works & that it's strong, but making a good one seems so difficult to engeneer & especially mass produce that i really don't know why its done..

[DAYWALKER]

Guess who i.v!

Anyway, I think it may be just you my friend. Micheal WALKER invented the liner lock, and it is definitely easy to close one handed. Yes, a properly designed lockback can do the same, i.e: :spyder: , but as you said, variety is the spice of life...some prefer linerlocks. Perhaps your hand contacted the liner and caused the knives to fail? Even "good brand" knives have grips that do cause the hand to accidentally disengage the lock...

I prefer lockbacks, but I have had a "good brand" lockback close on me, I like framelocks, but I have had "good brand" framelockers shut on me too...It all depends really on a lot of variables that I DO NOT want to "disagree" with you on right now! LOL! :rolleyes:

The other :spyder: dudes will be here soon. Actually, I just wanted to say, and i do not know if I am spelling this right: "Shalom Haver Shelli"...(Close enough I hope!!!)

God bless :cool:

[gabo]

I'm with you IV. never quite trusted the liners. seem too vulnerable to slipping off with a sturdy grip. Had a Emerson which was unpredictable. I trust the framelock, lockbacks, ball bearing lock and the compressions.
While similar at first, I think the compression lock is a very different animal, and trust it in my Lil temperance.

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha Gabo!

Yes, the Comp-Locks are rather different yet somewhat the same!

I have had a BM Tsunami close on me, a SS :spyder: Police "thank God it was" PE close on me (ONCE), and a Gerber EZ Out close on me. S&W Ti Camo Framelocker shut on me a few times. Like I said, it all depends...

I have an Emerson Raven that I tested once, MBC Style, and it worked fine. My Mili went through testing of the same, and it never shut on me...I did notice however, that if I "death grip" and twist my Walker FRN, I can make the lock disengage, but under "normal" use, as a cutting tool as opposed to an SD weapon, the knives I have mentioned would NOT have closed on me...

Some linerlockers are built properly FOR hard use, while others...well, just aren't. I still like linerlocks though. Wouldn't if I was a lefty! :rolleyes:

God bless :cool:

[i.v]

LOL :p
first of all, since we don't use latin letters you can spell it however you like & it won't matter much
now lets turn it to the more common phraze here
Shalom ahhe shelli! i'mprovising as i go :p


my main beaf about the liner lock is not an occasional failure, i've had other types of lock fail here and there (no spydie has ever failed on me btw :D ).
every liner i've had has failed, all but one. could be my bad luck i guess.
one of my more dangerous incidents with a major brand was while cutting a carrot for a sallad, while slicing in a forward motion the tip snagged a little on the cutting board & the knife closed! :eek: scared my fingers but luckily nothing more.

anyway, the reason i probably posted this is because i'm looking somewhere for you guys to convince me otherwise... maybe it's just the gripes before the morning coffee :D

[crahen]

Sorry to be contrary, but I really like liner locks. Never had any problems with them at all.

Liner locks go back at least to the 40's or 50's. companies would put them on knives like a single blade trapper. Yes it has a back spring, but it would give the knife an easy to add lock.

So they have been around for a long time, and with modern materials have proven to be very reliable if well made.

[DAYWALKER]

Aloha i.v!

Sorry man...I just did not know how to write it out...neither did the facility nurse who is from Israel know! :D

Oh well, bear with me on this next one, but "lehitraot & toda raba!"

God bless :cool:

PS: Okay, NOW I know why ya don't like linerlocks!!!


HOWZIT crahen!!! Still "seeing" them voices? :p Kidding sir!!! God bless you too :cool:

[crahen]

How you doin' DAYWALKER?

Yeah, I'm trying to ignore those voices LOL :D

God bless you too

[Jimmy_Dean]

I think the bad image I had of liner locks came from the fact that a lot of cheapo knives use it, and you can imagine how reliable they are.
I currently have only one liner lock knife in my collection and never had any problem with it. I tend to prefer lockbacks, except for the fact they sometime have a hint of vertical play.

-Dean

[jabajet]

I used to prefer lockbacks, but after carrying and using linerlocks, I prefer them.

[i.v]

hey daywalker, you wrote it just fine, i changed it to the phraze we usually say here :D
the second one was just fine, ask the nurse the meaning to
"Ma hamatsav ahi? Ani Mekkave She-Besseder" :p

i see your point Jimmy Dean & agree with you, to tell the truth, vertical blade play doesn't bother me the least bit

[Chris_H]

I don't think you need any convincing. Your experiences are based on your actual use of that lock design. You've already got your answer, and luckily there are plenty of models out there with different, more-reliable (at least for you) locks.

Also, I 'm surprised that the Lake and Walker Knife Safety (LAWKS) isn't used more in the industry.

[sal]

Hi I.V.

Linerlocks became popular primarily because they can be made to have a very "easy" open action.

Linerlocks have been around for many years but the lock was always combined with a backspring. The lock kept the blade open and the backspring kept the blade closed. The back spring kept constant pressure on the tang which made the blade difficult to open.

Michael Walker invented the ball bearing / detent combination to keep the knife closed. That made it possible to eliminate the backspring. Eliminating the back spring meant there was little or no pressure hindering the opening of the blade. There was also the advntage that the linelock took up no space in the handle like other locks, so it could be fitted to any design.

The difficulty lies in manufacturing. It "seems" that the linerlock would be a simple lock, but there are many forces that can affect it's performance, from wear to twist.

Made well, they can be a good lock. Our Millie has been getting better and better over the years and has earned a very good reputation for reliability.

I like to keep an opened mind (drafty brain ) and maintain the idea that in design, "All good, just different". That way I don't lose out on experiencing the many examples and variety that exists in the knife world.

If you want to enjoy the features of a Walker Linerlock, you will have to select carefully.

I would also like to add that the knife world owes a debt of gratitute to Michael Walker for his development. The concept revolutionized folding knives. Michael has received very little money (Spyderco did pay Michael Royalties) and very little credit for his "gift" to the knife industry.

sal

-------------------------------------------------

The entire "business chain" from; raw materials, manufacturing, marketing, selling, distributing, shipping, warrantees, insurance, credit, etc. ALL EXISTS to service the ELU (End Line User). Remove the ELU from the equation and the entire business chain falls like a house of cards. We all work for you!

[i.v]

thanks for the reply Sal! i didn't know most of that :)
i've had no problem what so ever with any :spyder: & i have gotten used to expect that, i have been hearing nothing but praise for the milli as well so i probably shouldn't be so timid about trying a :spyder: liner lock.
the milli is too big for me so i'll wait for something smaller with a liner to come along :p

[v34]

One of the biggest things about linerlocks is the poor ability to keep the blade closed. I like the smoothness of the liner lock to open but the ball bearing detent never sems to have enough 'stick'. Saying that my favourite large EDC is a liner lock (Shh.....its an mini AFCK) but the only thing I would trust loose in a pocket is a lockback hence my pocket EDC is a Kiwi.

[Stevie Ray]

thanks for the reply Sal! i didn't know most of that :)
i've had no problem what so ever with any :spyder: & i have gotten used to expect that, i have been hearing nothing but praise for the milli as well so i probably shouldn't be so timid about trying a :spyder: liner lock.
the milli is too big for me so i'll wait for something smaller with a liner to come along :p

I.V.,

You do owe it to yourself to try a Millie. For that matter, try one of the Tim Wegner Spydie Collaboration knives. Both the Millie and the Weg lock up like a vault. If you want to try a slightly smaller Spydie (that just happens to be on closeout through SFO :spyder: ), you might want to try the aluminum scale Herbst. It's a really nice one. Although this point might not be important to all users, I can't think of another lock design that allows faster blade deployment.

[tortoise]

You know I used to think that I didn't like liner locks.

More precisely, I thought that I preferred other locks. I started carrying a Military years ago and thought, "Well, I like this knife, but I do wish it had a different lock." That very first Mili actually came with a bad lock. (It had been a demo model at the NYC show.) I posted at BFC (no Spyderco home-forum then) asking about liner locks because I wasn't sure how "solid" it should be, and if mine was bad or not. Some suggested that failed spine-whacks were a liner lock staple and said, "Maybe a liner lock is not for you." I wondered the same thing, but sent it in so it could be examined. -Well Spyderco replaced that knife with a perfect new one and I found out how solid it should be...completely.

Time passed and I owned and/or tried many knives of various types. Lockback styles were certainly most common, but I also owned a compression lock (Gunting) and an Axis model, plus trying the ball-bearing and some other compression models at the shows. I always came back to the Military. Sometimes I did so immediately after handling a new knife, like tasting something that you don't like... you know right away it's not for you. But if you had asked me, even during this period what my favorite lock was, I doubt I would've said "liner."

Only very recently did I have this epiphany... I like liner locks! I have found, through experience over the years and not by conscious thought, that I actually prefer them. I just got through trying out one of the king-daddy MBC rated lockbacks, and though it's a beautiful knife I still completely prefer my nested liner Military.

How about that?! :eek: :D

[crahen]

"the milli is too big for me so i'll wait for something smaller with a liner to come along" - i.v


If you can get your hands on a Tim Wegner Jr. you'll be amazed. One of the finest liner lock knives EVER made! At least in my opinion.

[druid]

I can list compromises in any lock type. Some are more expensive, some have gritty feel to them. Most if not all can be jammed by debris. Some have problems with popping open.
In my experience the only time I've had lock fail is when they were not properly engage.
I've had a Tim Wagner which I feel is one of the best lockups.
I have a centafante Jr. which has a good liner lock lock up, and a backup lock all in a very slim package.
I have an aluminum cricket that use every day, it has a strong little liner lock that have little trouble with even with packing tape getting all over the place.
I do know to me about liner locks thou you can get the feeling that your fingers could undo the lock.
My favorite lock is the framelock$$$$$$
and my least favorite is actually the compression lock, which will not as easily disengaged accidentally, will pop open when closed. And as a very tight tolerance which leads to being jammed by very small amounts of debris so that it does not engage fully. I live by the beach so sand witch is a major form of debris is always an issue.
I hope that's not too long for anybody to read :eek:

[i.v]

tortoise, if i had a millie as my first liner lock, or second, or third or forth... :D i might have shared your opinion.
the milli is too big for me not just in size, but in budget, the wegner just in budget
sadly the budget department won't change for a couple of years at least but i'll keep hoping, maybe i'll run into a good deal somewhere... heh, infact i found a few knives around the web for great prices only to find that shipping was 30$, such a sad irony :o
i hear ya on the framelocks druid, i like them too, they inspire the feeling of security (even though it's not always true)

thanks everyone :p