Spyderco vs Strider

[Sundown]

Here's a direct quote from Mick regarding the lock strength of his knife designs. Keep in mind that the knife they tested was a Buck factory knife of Strider design. Strider's custom-made knives are even stronger:

"The SB1 which of course is a Buck knife, but one of our design.....and kinda the AR/GB's little brother was measured at 950 lbs against the lock and 2000 lbs against the bumpstop. :eek: Dang, that's a really impressive number for a liner-lock knife!
That was the lowest score of the ten knives they destroyed.

ALL of our folders are stronger than that." Does Strider test their knives (the non-Buck collaborations) for lock breakage strength?

I have been considering buying an SNG, so I would really like to hear what type of testing Strider performs on their own, non-Buck collaboration knives.

Next question, does "bumpstop" mean what is commonly referred to as the "stop-pin"?

Thanks!

[Jimd]

I have been considering buying an SNG, so I would really like to hear what type of testing Strider performs on their own, non-Buck collaboration knives.

Next question, does "bumpstop" mean what is commonly referred to as the "stop-pin"?

Thanks!

Yes, Strider performs their own tests on their own knives, in addition to letting real-world special operators use them for test/eval. I've seen a few tests that Strider does on their knives, and they're absolutely brutal, to say the least.

I'm not sure about the "bumpstop" question....

[Sundown]

Thanks for the info, JimD! I may just have to get an SNG to partner up with my Manix! :)

As for the "bumpstop" question, can anybody tell me what it (a "bumpstop") is? I had just assumed that it means a "stop-pin", but I may be mistaken.

Thanks!

[GarageBoy]

sal uses state of the art machinery to break stuff in seconds flat. Lets see a SEAL do that and get a graph of the date. =D

[sal]

Hi Garageboy. There are all manners of testing. Different, but good. The important part is that the maker is extending the effort to test....which means they care....which means you get a better product.

sal

[HoB]

I guess the bumbstop is called anvil pin only in compression locks, as in compression locks the stop pin is wedged between the blade and the anvilpin. This is the reason why the compression lock is such a great lock, it means that in principle you can design a lock were the two numbers cited by Strider are equal.

Usually I find myself to agree with Thombrogan, but in this case I disagree: My two favorite knifes are the Lil'T and the Manix so I am the last person to complain about lockstrength but I don't really think these enomous lockstrength numbers are needed in general use. If that were so, I don't think that Spyderco would sell knifes with lower lockstrength anymore since it would mean that they are endangering their customers and I don't think that would fit the motto of being good even if nobody is looking.

As an example just imagine the following scenario: You want to use a Manix to climb a tree so you ram the blade of your Manix at least an inch deep into the tree (anything less and the blade would slip out, actually I think that 1 inch is still marginally sufficient for such a stunt), edge down no less. Now you pull yourself up the tree by using the Manix as a hand hold. You could weigh 330#s (!) supporting your entire bodyweight on one hand hold only and the lock would still not fail (assuming you grab the handle fairly close to the pivot). Weighing in at a mere 184#s, I would be hard pressed to exert such a moment. I am sure that there are strongman, powelifters and football players out there that could exert such force, but I think you would have to go looking under world class athletes to find one.

[GarageBoy]

Umh, anytime you cause something to accelerate (when you pull up, you accelerate upwards) you apply more strength than your weight (if my physics is correct)

[Joe Talmadge]

As an example just imagine the following scenario: You want to use a Manix to climb a tree so you ram the blade of your Manix at least an inch deep into the tree (anything less and the blade would slip out, actually I think that 1 inch is still marginally sufficient for such a stunt), edge down no less. Now you pull yourself up the tree by using the Manix as a hand hold. You could weigh 330#s (!) supporting your entire bodyweight on one hand hold only and the lock would still not fail (assuming you grab the handle fairly close to the pivot). Weighing in at a mere 184#s, I would be hard pressed to exert such a moment. I am sure that there are strongman, powelifters and football players out there that could exert such force, but I think you would have to go looking under world class athletes to find one.

Well, in some sense, I find this a side discussion, at least for the liner locks. The real problem point with liner locks (and I realize not all Strider's folders are liner locks) is almost always reliability, not strength. If the liner might slide off the tang if the spine is bumped, I don't care if it will hold 1000 pounds/inch.

[John Frederick]

I agree that the only Strider influenced design that I would like to see incorporated by Spyderco is the ****-for-stout pivot bolt. O.K., the tiger-striped blades are way cool as well.
If I could have those features added to my Manix I'd probably never buy another knife again. As it stands I think the Manix has solved my knife needs for a long time.

[thombrogan]

HoB,

You need to eat more and climb trees with your Manix more often. If your metabolism is too fast, we'll need to open a Kringle bakery in New England.

I should've clarified that I prefer overkill to underdone instead of state it as some sort universal requirement for good folding knives. Thanks for bringing it up.

[HoB]

What can I say Thom, where you are right, you are right :p . Actually, I have a thing for Krispy Cream Donuts and if they were more common in New England I would probably be heavier :D .

You are absolutely right Garageboy, and I didn't mean to take that example too far. I just wanted to give an illustrative example just how enormously strong the MBC rate locks of Spyderco are. In the end your body (hands, wrists, arms) has a limit and whether you exceed it by increased acceleration or by pure mass+gravity is really not so important me thinks. Just imagine you stab into something and through that stab suddenly the equivalent of a 300# weight is placed on your outstretched wrist. I would think your wrist would snap like a twig.

I don't know about the slipping of a liner lock. That is more of a practical issue that I don't know enough about, I am sure Joe knows better than me. I just wanted to give these test numbers a frame of reference.

[Mick Strider]

wow.....what a funny topic.....

Interesting to compare knives that are on opposite ends of the spectrum of not only design....but intended use.....




Kind of sad to see an icon in the knife industry feel he needs to talk down another’s product….

Oh well…..we must be effecting sales...



See you all somewhere else….

m

[John Frederick]

Mick, I have a lot of respect for and for Sal: You are both heavily involved with your end line users. That is a rare quality these days.
However, I fail to see where Sal spoke poorly about Strider. I assume this is because I have a different point of view than you do. Oh well, that's life.

[Mick Strider]

My bad bro, your right......i miss read.....

May have just been the flavor.



i think it bummed me out because we are always the first people to praise Sal and what he's done.

No harm done, in any case...... just an attitude adjustment needed on my end.



m

[Mick Strider]

A quick note on the lock stabilizer.

Rick Hinderer invented this little guy….

What it does is (primarily) keeps your lock from being “over opened”, and decreasing its spring strength.



M


.

[John Frederick]

I feel better now that all is right in my "knife world."

Sal and Mick remain class acts producing great products that excell at thier intended roles.

Thanks Mick for chiming in. It's the involvement that we appreciate.

[sal]

Hi Mick. Welcome to the Spyderco forum. Honored you would take the time to visit.

We always appreciate hearing from those that know.

Sorry if you got the impression there was bad-mouthing going on. None meant on my part. Strider knives is respected here. We do seem to have quite a few mutual customers.

We often discuss other knife companies here. We try hard to keep in realistic and civil.

Most of the "Who's better" arguments become an education. "All good - just different" is usually the conclusion.

We're regularly asked to approach the markets of competitors. Most of the time we keep pretty close to home on our designs. Sometimes it results in a collaboration of some type. We're doing a factory / factory collaboration with Ernest Emerson on a "waved" Spyderco. We've got another one going that we'll intro at SHOT.

So as long as you're here

I mentioned earlier in the thread that we wouldn't want to go after the Strider market, but we'd consider a collaboration.

We've been developing this "Integral Compression Lock" that is ultra simple and very strong. We're still learning about and refining the concept, but so far results are quite impressive.

If you are curious, let me know and we'll send you one to "play with".

I'll bet we could "argue up" an interesting design.

sal

[John Frederick]

I sure would like to see this pan out in the future. Just the idea of it gives me goose bumps.

Give a thought Mick, please.

[HoB]

Wow, a Strider/Spyderco collaboration....now THAT would be cool.

I am for one very sad that this rather entertaining thread came this close to offending Mick Strider. I think everyone who has held both a Strider and a Spyderco realized that these two are beasts of a different color and a comparison is a bit like comparing apples and oranges. But I think arguing for the pure fun of it, even if it is uneducated (which it is by necessity, since none of us have the experience and knowledge of either Mick Strider or Sal Glesser) is not such a bad thing as long as it is not ill meant. I think everybody posting here has a deep respect if not love for both Strider knives as well as for Spyderco knives. Otherwise they would not be here or would care enough to join the discussion.

Of course I can speak only for myself but I hope that Mick Strider continues to visit this forum and maybe even adds to its richness by continuing to occasionally post here.

[Slvgx]

We've been developing this "Integral Compression Lock" that is ultra simple and very strong. We're still learning about and refining the concept, but so far results are quite impressive.

If you are curious, let me know and we'll send you one to "play with".

I'll bet we could "argue up" an interesting design.

sal

I'd like to see that "interesting design" take form!!!!