Give me a break

Discuss Spyderco's products and history.
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severedthumbs
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Give me a break

Postby severedthumbs » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:21 pm

I hate these kind of tests.
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HoB
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Postby HoB » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:24 pm

Oh no you are NOT going to warm this picture up again!!!

Sal's response was pretty much: Yes, praybars tend to be less prone to breaking than knives.

'Nuf said.

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Postby severedthumbs » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:28 pm

yeah I know, ole Ernie has posted this elsewhere in support of his knives. I have also noted that the ATR broke at the weakest point of the blade, so what is the point? Also prybars are much softer than knife blades. I think these kind of tests are st00pid. I never pry anything wis my knives.

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Hannibal Lecter
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No Correlation

Postby Hannibal Lecter » Tue Nov 16, 2004 5:33 pm

I hardly see where these tests have any correlation with the real world. Knives are not, by design, prying instruments; they are cutting instruments. Ever try to use a crescent wrench for a hammer?

I do not EVER subject a knife blade to such horrible abuse. There are tools designed for those jobs, and a knife is a poor substitute for them under the best of circumstances.

That being said, my Spydies *cut* wonderfully...

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Postby Jimd » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:50 pm

It's true that knives are designed to cut things, and do nothing else.

However, some knives are made with the idea in mind that occasionally, depending on your circumstances or occupation, you might have to ask more of your knife than just cutting.

Many of us in law enforcement or military have had to use our knives for some pretty radical tasks on occasion, and we're glad when we have one that will not only survive, but excel at these tasks. Digging, prying, hammering...that's not what knives were designed for originally, but at times, we have no choice.

By the way, I'm not an Emerson representative.... :)
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Postby Jimmy_Dean » Tue Nov 16, 2004 6:52 pm

Wow, even a Boker Kal...
Anyonw who does that kind of testing on a knife, thinking it's a real life situation or of any value has the IQ of a shrimp. Show me some cutting and I'll be listening, after all, that's what knives are made for!

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Test Results Relevant?

Postby Hannibal Lecter » Tue Nov 16, 2004 7:00 pm

Jimd wrote:Many of us in law enforcement or military have had to use our knives for some pretty radical tasks on occasion, and we're glad when we have one that will not only survive, but excel at these tasks. Digging, prying, hammering...that's not what knives were designed for originally, but at times, we have no choice.
I believe it is referred to as "field expediency," and I agree wholeheartedly that necessity will lead you to use whatever is handy to accomplish your goals by any means necessary.

My only argument is that I fail to see where test results of such a nature should be used as more than a passing criteria for knife selection for the average civilian. It seems unfair to subject a knife capable of holding a razor's edge, capable of beautiful precision cuts, perfect of balance and lovely to behold, to abuses it is not designed for and claim it is somehow inferior to a tool designed to withstand such abuses.

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Postby Senate » Tue Nov 16, 2004 10:55 pm

I don't think the ATR was the best Spyderco candidate for this kind of test but the fact is: Emerson's not here to demonstrate the quality of Spyderco knives... ;)

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Postby Jimd » Wed Nov 17, 2004 3:15 pm

Okay, I agree that all knives are not made to withstand abuses such as prying, digging, etc., and to compare knives that were made for such duties is kind of like comparting apples to oranges.

Do "regular" civilians need knives that can be battered/abused? Depends on what you're activities are. I think many people could use such a knife. Camping and vigorou outdoor activities come to mind. If I were going into the wilderness, I'd definitely have such a knife along.

To me, there's something appealing about having a knife that can be brutally abused and neglected, and still maintain a razor edge.

Delicate knives that make precision cuts are nice, too, and I carry them. The problem is that their delicacy can, at times, be a drawback.
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Postby Zrexxer » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:08 pm

Well if that's Emerson's promotion, the unbroken CRKT in the pic too doesn't exactly lend an exceptional sense of quality to the survivors.

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Postby thombrogan » Wed Nov 17, 2004 5:35 pm

I thought it was a great test. Aside from price and not surviving the prybar test, the ATR (aka Salbenza) was best in class for most everything else. Blop/overseas also made a great observation: the knives that broke had more screws stabilizing the handle than the ones which didn't break (possible exception being the CRKT which was chosen by the reviewers as the top knife in their test). So the test showed that the Salbenza, Kalishnakov, and the Elishewitz design transfer force from the handle into the blade (if you're prying with the blade, this is a desired behavior) while the other knives tended to have a "what happens in the handle stays in the handle" behavior (good if you like your blade, but questionable if your approach to prying is practical). That said, I think that the Buck knife would've held up even if its handle was as stabilized as the sliceliscious Salbenza.
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Postby Stevie Ray » Wed Nov 17, 2004 6:56 pm

Prying is one thing ...., and I suppost there are tests for that. The test I'm aware of that Spyderco conducts is on blade-lock strength. Does Spyderco also conduct a "pry" test ?? That's news to me.

Allright ... more here on this edit .... Who uses an expensive knife to pry with when screwdrivers are almost EVERYWHERE ..... sorry .. but ... :confused:
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Postby hawkbill » Wed Nov 17, 2004 7:57 pm

I have to admit, there was a time that it seemed like a good idea to have a sharp tool which might be pressed into service as a prybar in an emergency. To meet this perceived need, I bought a Becker Rescue Dive Tool. Now, it definitely can't ride on my person, so it sits in my gear bag in my car. Some may want to carry a folding sharpened-prybar, but not me.
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Postby GarageBoy » Wed Nov 17, 2004 8:18 pm

Guys, the test wasn't done by Emerson. He's just happy it survived. (And BM's replacement for his CQC7 didn't)

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Postby Senate » Wed Nov 17, 2004 9:20 pm

The Bench and the ATR don't play in the same category as the others, they should have taken the 630 Skirmish for Bench and a Military or a Lum tanto folder for Spyderco... I bet you the result wouldn't be the same. ;)

only compare what is comparable.

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Postby Jimd » Thu Nov 18, 2004 3:30 pm

Stevie Ray wrote:Does Spyderco also conduct a "pry" test ?? That's news to me.

Allright ... more here on this edit .... Who uses an expensive knife to pry with when screwdrivers are almost EVERYWHERE ..... sorry .. but ... :confused:
For some reason, many here seem to be against rugged types of knives that are built to withstand hard use and abuse.

As for screwdrivers being "everywhere"....that might be debatable. If you're out in the middle of nowhere, it's possible that you won't find a screwdriver lying around. Your knife might just be the only tool you have with you at the time. Personally, I'd take comfort in knowing that at least one of the knives that I have with me will take any and all abuse that I throw at it, and continue to function.
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Postby fret » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:07 pm

I don't see a Boker Kal 74 in the pix but I think I do see a Boker Magnum tanto PS there. By the way what type of envelope was he trying to open? This thought came to me just as I saw the pix. Just kidding. I have never used any knife to pry with. I did break an Imperial hunting knife blade by chopping one time on a small log. I think it had a flaw in the steel? Who did the test if you don't mind me asking?

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Postby Fozzy » Thu Nov 18, 2004 5:52 pm

If you want a pocket size pry tool, I can heartily recommend Knifemaker Peter Atwood's PryBabies. It's got a bottle opener too although I have no idea what that would be used for... :p
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Postby severedthumbs » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:32 pm

it is from that messer magazine. some german thing.

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Postby severedthumbs » Thu Nov 18, 2004 7:32 pm

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